BREXIT positives and negatives

1,347 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Feierabend said:

So the people who choose to post on the Tesla thread are representative of the forum population as a whole? Not a very good statistical sample. 

They´re the ones who shout the loudest about such things so yes.

9 hours ago, keith2011 said:

if queues form for machines it means there is not enough of them.

I used one of them about 6 years ago and the bloke in front of me took about 6 attempts to get it to work and it took me 3.


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Brits would want to be really, really careful what they wish for (the "ability" to ignore the ECHR is a "brexit benefit" as EU member states are legally obliged to be bound by all ECHR rulings):



First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


Germans voted in an authoritarian party that led to an utter catastrophe for this country. Don't believe it can't happen in the UK. The UK doesn't even have a written constitution, copper fastening things like style of government. The system in the UK relies very heavily on politicians just doing the decent thing. When you elect people like Johnson, Gove and Patel then that's extraordinarily risky. EU membership was a major safeguard of the rights of Britons in Britain as ECHR rulings were binding there too. Now Brexit opens the door for a rolling back of these protections, for all, and they have already started it seems. All in the name of "freedom". Many always believed Brexit was just a right wing power grab from the beginning.


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You don't see too many of the old Brexit cheerleaders on here any more. Long since scuttled off with their tails between their legs. What's going to be really contentious is what happens in NI with regards to the ECHR. The convention and the Strasbourg court which is the final arbiter on its contents, are enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement:



This is one of many reasons why the UK government leaving the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), as it has suggested it might to fulfil its policy of sending asylum seekers to Rwanda, would be not only dangerous but illegal. The ECHR – along with controversial conventions such as early release for prisoners involved in paramilitary activity – is enshrined within the agreement, and as such the UK is bound to it. The intention was to ensure that citizens in Northern Ireland had the right to appeal to a higher court, since it was recognised that in previous cases related to the Troubles – those of the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six – the British justice system could not always be relied upon to be fair and impartial.

That the ECHR may be inconvenient to the Conservative Party’s egregious Rwanda plan is irrelevant. Dismantling the UK’s association with it breaks both domestic and international law. Ironic, considering that the Tories have almost exclusively presented “illegal migration” as a law and order issue.


Now I know these were "just paddies", albeit British citizens! who spent decades rotting and in some cases dying in prison, but remember, the very same could happen to "proper British citizens". British justice has proven itself open to serious levels of abuse, corruption and cover up, and not just in Northern Ireland, where suspects were tortured by the RUC. That's the ROYAL Ulster Constabulary. A British police force tortured suspects during interrogations at places like Castlereagh. This isn't even a generation ago these things happened.


I would be amazed if Ireland, the EU and the United States allow Northern Ireland to fall out of the jurisdiction of the ECHR without serious sanctions being levelled against the UK. Could we see a scenario where GB residents are left with no ECHR protections, relying solely on the same British justice system that sent dozens of innocent men and women to prison for decades, while NI residents remain afforded the right to refer cases to the ECHR for adjudication? 


Northern Ireland always was and remains the circle that can't be squared. How the fools laughed when told this 5 years ago.


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