BREXIT positives and negatives

1,647 posts in this topic

22 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I'm guessing you got yourself an Irish passport based on your grandfather's birth in Ireland?

Not yet.  I still hope.  For some reason his birth cert is missing from the system.  I have found all his brothers and sisters, birth and baptism records.  And him in Dublin census 1911.  I know that even during his lifetime, when he host his birth cert, they could not find record.  Some sort of glitch.  Hey ho.  

 

Some people, bothering to register a birth was a hassle, I mean, why bother?  Working long hours, difficulty with a birth, illness in family, and having to travel to do so.  And for what benefit at the time?   But this does not fit with his family.  He had established family, father worked as a legal clerk in Dublin. Previous siblings, and one born after him all registered.   Wonder about a informal adoption from a family member.  These things happened.  But could be loads of things.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, murphaph said:

 

I tend to agree that in principle Scottish nationalism is a bit like Brexit but the Scots are not represented inside the UK as sovereign states are within the EU. Any state can veto "big stuff" like EU expansion, or the imposition of an embargo on Russian oil, for example. Scotland couldn't veto Brexit. It has less proportionally power inside the UK than Ireland has inside the EU, which is clearly not on, given Ireland has like 2% of the EU's population whereas Scotland has what, 10% of the UK's? To keep Scotland inside the UK will require the country (the UK that is) becoming a proper federal state, otherwise I see Scottish independence as a foregone conclusion too, with just the timescale being up for discussion.

Scotland may not have a veto but it does have 73 MPs representing approx 11% of the seats in Parliament so very much in line with its population size and they have their own  national (law and tax making) parliament. Also how democratic is a veto representing 10% of the population or 2% (Ireland in the EU) and for that very reason I understand there are proposals in the EU to scrap it. BTW can Bayern veto decisions made in the Bundestag?

Having said that that I do believe changes in the UK constitution are well overdue and it is not just the Lords, the situation where the Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have their own parliaments but Eglish only issues have to be worked through the UK Parliament is to my mind clearly crazy.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, snowingagain said:

Ha.  My father was born in NZ.  His father born 1879 Ireland to Irish parents (so his passport was British).  His mother English (which counted for nothing).   He moved to UK in 1925.  He was not entitled to British citizenship.  He tried getting UK passport and it was a no no.  He refused to pay to become British.   He found it funny in 1980s when, returning from a holiday in France, the immigration officer stamped "allowed in for a limited period".  It is the same thing that happenned to the Windrush people.  Except my father was white, and educated.  The white van men never came for him.  Nor Spike Milligan who had similar.

 

A brief Guardianesque history of passports!

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2006/nov/17/travelnews

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7.5.2022, 17:44:08, snowingagain said:

Not yet.  I still hope.  For some reason his birth cert is missing from the system.  I have found all his brothers and sisters, birth and baptism records.  And him in Dublin census 1911.  I know that even during his lifetime, when he host his birth cert, they could not find record.  Some sort of glitch.  Hey ho.  

 

Some people, bothering to register a birth was a hassle, I mean, why bother?  Working long hours, difficulty with a birth, illness in family, and having to travel to do so.  And for what benefit at the time?   But this does not fit with his family.  He had established family, father worked as a legal clerk in Dublin. Previous siblings, and one born after him all registered.   Wonder about a informal adoption from a family member.  These things happened.  But could be loads of things.

 

 

Do you have any idea in what church he could have been baptized? Then there would be an entry in the church books.

 

My mother is from Estonia, and she never had a birth certificate because those didn't exist at that time - but I found her baptism record in her home town church's book as a microfiche copy in the country's central archive, and got an official confirmation of her birth in lieu of a certificate from the authorities.


(Interesting side detail because my life is like a movie  - these are Lutheran churches, and the entries were *in German*, not Estonian !! The country used to be ruled by German aristocrats, and the "church language" seems to have been a holdover from that. History is fun and weird. :) )

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Metall said:

Do you have any idea in what church he could have been baptized? Then there would be an entry in the church books.

Unfortunately, most Church of Ireland records were stored centrally at Ireland Record's Office in Dublin which got burned out during the civil war in 1922.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It all beggars belief. The UK decision to conclude an agreement incorporating border/trade controls between GB and NI was of course moronic. But once it was done, the issue is now solely an internal UK problem. There is no reason why the EU would want to make reopening the Brexit deal on that point a top priority.

What amazed me crossing the channel this past week was that the ports in Dunkirk and Dover now have a new section for ferries direct to Ireland. Brexit has left the UK as such a basket case that it's actually easier to stick lorries on a boat near the Belgian border doing about 30 knots for 24 hours all the way to Ireland, rather than nip across the channel and drive through GB.

It would be almost possible to describe the UK as being in a state of managed decline, except the word "managed" is too generous. It's sad really, but from my conversations with folk over there, there wasn't much appetite to do anything about it.

 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, dstanners said:

It all beggars belief. The UK decision to conclude an agreement incorporating border/trade controls between GB and NI was of course moronic. But once it was done, the issue is now solely an internal UK problem. There is no reason why the EU would want to make reopening the Brexit deal on that point a top priority.

What amazed me crossing the channel this past week was that the ports in Dunkirk and Dover now have a new section for ferries direct to Ireland. Brexit has left the UK as such a basket case that it's actually easier to stick lorries on a boat near the Belgian border doing about 30 knots for 24 hours all the way to Ireland, rather than nip across the channel and drive through GB.

It would be almost possible to describe the UK as being in a state of managed decline, except the word "managed" is too generous. It's sad really, but from my conversations with folk over there, there wasn't much appetite to do anything about it.

 

Haha, the ferries are avoiding the UK like the airplanes are avoiding Ukraine. A no sail zone.

 

Did they not have ferries from the continent direct to Ireland before?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dstanners said:

It all beggars belief. The UK decision to conclude an agreement incorporating border/trade controls between GB and NI was of course moronic. But once it was done, the issue is now solely an internal UK problem. There is no reason why the EU would want to make reopening the Brexit deal on that point a top priority.

 

I think you are completely wrong it is clearly not an "internal UK problem", that is way too simplistic. Are you forgetting that the Republic of Ireland is a member of the EU and is very much involved in anything that threatens the status quo regarding the border between north and south? The recent historic election result in the north will count for nothing if the DUP will not join in and stick to their demands for no border between the rest of the UK.  Without any agreement with the EU those demands would mean a return to a hard north/south border in breach of the GFA, either that or a further NI government stalemate and a risk of an escalation to violence.I believe it is very important that all the parties  involved , particularly the EU, get together and thrash out a workable compromise as soon as possible and have little doubt the ROI will also be pushing for that that.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Few direct ferry services between Ireland and continental Europe before brexit. Dozens now. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am guessing no one asked the people of northern Ireland what they wanted???

There clearly needs to be a border and controls on goods entering the Ireland from the UK and the UK from Ireland.

Question is simply where the border sits, the north sea or NI/Ireland land border.

 

Seems they couldn't make that border agreement work in practice, either through incompetence or lack of will power presumably(???)

If this is really the case, then we'll likely end up with a border where it should have been in the first place.

Then it will be for the UK/Ireland to sort out something on that side.

 

I suspect Ireland has benefitted hugely from being the last remaining English speaking country and many businesses relocated from the UK to Ireland/NI to remain within the EU.

You could argue NI 'enjoys' access to both EU and UK markets as it currently stands. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, scook17 said:

I am guessing no one asked the people of northern Ireland what they wanted???

 

Given they voted "remain" in the brexit referendum and Sinn Fein won the recent NI Assembly election I fail to see how you come to that guess.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The DUP are so politically naive that they don't seem to realise the protocol is their last chance to keep NI in the UK. It provides NI a huge competitive advantage compared to both GB and the EU which would make a lot of small n nationalists think long and hard about giving that up for a united Ireland. The price to pay for this unique position in a combined market of 450 million people? Some hardcore loyalists feel offended that a particular brand of sausages might not be available in Sainsbury's. That's basically it. The EU has already made several major concessions to make the protocol work better for NI, such as allowing GB medicines into NI even if they are not certified for use in the EU. The DUP would prefer a short term go down in flames hard border with the Republic that forces NI to choose EU or GB, rather than letting the protocol live and not forcing any such choice. Forcing the choice is extremely risky with the demographics shifting ever further to the nationalist side. They didn't get the GFA that let people be Irish or British or both. They don't get the protocol either. They always gravitate to the hard line and then it burns them.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oldish news but particularly pertinent.

  PMQs: Boris Johnson refuses to cut VAT on energy bills despite Brexit promise that he would | ITV News

Notice how before Brexit they said ...

 

"When we Vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax."

 

That actually means they could if they wanted to,but typical of many Brexit promises it has not been kept because it was not actually a promise but merely an election slogan couched in smoke and shadows made to look like a promise.

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eventually as Mrs. T said, you run out of other peoples' money. Brexit reduced the tax pool. Cuts have to be made. Services will be reduced or eliminated and slowly but surely the idiots who voted for Brexit will begin to feel its effects.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now