BREXIT positives and negatives

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

The German system automatically strips you of your citizenship if you take on another one without seeking and being granted permission to retain your German citizenship beforehand. This British law goes much, much further than that. It allows people who for whatever reason hold or even are just theoretically eligible to hold another citizenship to be stripped of their British citizenship at the pleasure of people like Priti Patel. That should be deeply disturbing to any Brit really. 

 

The longer explanation of stripping people of UK citizenship is here: https://www.newstatesman.com/the-explainer/2021/12/what-does-the-nationality-and-borders-bill-mean-for-you 

 

For a long time it's been all but impossible to remove someone from the UK who is deemed serious threat to UK society.

Preaching racial division for example Abu Hamza cost the UK huge sums of money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri) to finally remove.

These are not the sort of people any western democracy wants breading hatred amongst different racial groups.

 

One might argue is similar measures had been in place in France and Belgium the 2015 Paris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks) and earlier Charlie Hedbo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting) cartoonist shootings could have been avoided by removing such radicalised individuals, or those responsible for teaching such.

 

BTW, the UK will also soon introduce, like the USA, a pre-flight authorization scheme (https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20210319/281805696694362).

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40 minutes ago, Mackle said:

 

I've actually used the word immigrant here in the UAE to describe myself and been corrected by Indian and Pakistani colleagues that we are all expats. The UAE media also refers to non-Emiratis as expats as well, regardless of where they come from.

 

And labour cards say "expatriate" on them - for everyone, not just the Brit ones.

 

I would consider the word immigrant to come from the intent to emigrate from your home country and to immigrate to another country. Dictionary definition is 'come to live permanently in a foreign country'. The word expat or expatriate is simply someone who not living in their home country currently. It says nothing about the intent to permanently live in a foreign country, but implies the option to return.

 

Despite living in Germany for many years, I would have referred to myself as an expat and would not consider myself as an immigrant. Maybe others who decide to permanently settle, speak fluent German, get a German passport etc. consider that they have emigrated from the UK, and thus are an immigrant to their destination country. How the locals may view you, of course can be quite different.

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Surely the solution to the likes of Abu Hamza preaching hate is to bang him up for a long, long time, not export the problem to someone else? This may turn into a race to strip these characters of their citizenships first if we start going down that road.

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7 minutes ago, scook17 said:

Seems British ex-pats might now get to vote in the UK elections again:

https://www.thelocal.de/20210527/british-citizens-living-in-europe-finally-get-right-to-vote-for-life/

 

No more 15 year rule.

 

 

That article is a year old and copied from here (I don't trust The Yokel):
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/votes-for-life-for-british-citizens-living-abroad

 

No idea how much of that is reality by now.

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49 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Surely the solution to the likes of Abu Hamza preaching hate is to bang him up for a long, long time, not export the problem to someone else? This may turn into a race to strip these characters of their citizenships first if we start going down that road.

 

Isn't that what happened to him? 7 years in UK goal then life in the USA after extradition and anyway he was not a British citizen!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri

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For the first time since its inception over a century ago, Northern Ireland, which was designed from the get go to have a permanent unionist majority, will now have a nationalist party as the largest party in the Assembly and Sinn Fein will have the right to nominate their candidate to become First Minister of Northern Ireland. Brexit benefit for Irish nationalism.

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47 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Brexit benefit for Irish nationalism.

 

Not just Irish Nationalism but potentially of great benefit for the security and peace of the entire British Isles.

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Assuming you mean under a united Ireland, there will be ample death and destruction before (and for quite a while after) that happens. Brexit benefit for gun runners.

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2 hours ago, murphaph said:

Assuming you mean under a united Ireland, there will be ample death and destruction before (and for quite a while after) that happens. Brexit benefit for gun runners.

 

I think you are making a wrong assumption if you think I have anything other than hope that a united Ireland can be achieved peacefully. To me it looks and feels like the right time for unification and the end of a border where there is no border but I bow to your obviously superior knowledge of your countrymen, do you believe it can not be a peaceful process? 

Interestingly to my mind the augments in favour of Irish unification could well be the same as those against Scottish separatism.

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On 4.5.2022, 14:36:38, keith2011 said:

 

Isn't that what happened to him? 7 years in UK goal then life in the USA after extradition and anyway he was not a British citizen!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri

Ok, he arrived UK in 1979.  He got British citizenship via length of time in UK and his British wife.  Meanwhile, Egypt decided he was a citizen they did not want.  Their law can do this.   So, difficult or impossible for UK to rescind UK citizenship, due to rules about making someone stateless.   Anyway, as you say, he is now in prison in the USA.  I guess he might try to get out on health grounds.  Think he has already tried this, without luck.

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1 hour ago, snowingagain said:

He got British citizenship via length of time in UK and his British wife.

 

Was he really a British citizen or was he just a resident? Given his UK criminal record from 1980 on, it seems to me unlikely that he would have got actual citizenship and there is no mention of that in Wikipedia. The problems of extraditing him seem to have been down to concerns about human rights both in the USA and Yemen rather than anything to do with citizenship.

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6 hours ago, keith2011 said:

 

I think you are making a wrong assumption if you think I have anything other than hope that a united Ireland can be achieved peacefully. To me it looks and feels like the right time for unification and the end of a border where there is no border but I bow to your obviously superior knowledge of your countrymen, do you believe it can not be a peaceful process? 

Interestingly to my mind the augments in favour of Irish unification could well be the same as those against Scottish separatism.

I know you don't want violence Keith but there's a rump of Loyalism that won't go quietly into a united Ireland at this stage. There will definitely be some death and destruction accompanying the process. They wouldn't thank you for calling them my countrymen either lol. They think they are your countrymen! I was happy with the GFA that let everyone believe what they wanted to believe, but that only worked with common UK and Ireland EU membership allowing us to squint a bit and see no border. The GFA was a nice slow path to (probable) unity, maybe some time after I have departed this earth, certainly not in my lifetime, but Brexit has forced the issue into a harsh spotlight. The old adage to let sleeping dogs lie was not adhered to. 

 

I tend to agree that in principle Scottish nationalism is a bit like Brexit but the Scots are not represented inside the UK as sovereign states are within the EU. Any state can veto "big stuff" like EU expansion, or the imposition of an embargo on Russian oil, for example. Scotland couldn't veto Brexit. It has less proportionally power inside the UK than Ireland has inside the EU, which is clearly not on, given Ireland has like 2% of the EU's population whereas Scotland has what, 10% of the UK's? To keep Scotland inside the UK will require the country (the UK that is) becoming a proper federal state, otherwise I see Scottish independence as a foregone conclusion too, with just the timescale being up for discussion.

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1 minute ago, murphaph said:

Given the UK's colonial past in Egypt he could well have been legally entitled to British citizenship through descent or something.

Ha.  My father was born in NZ.  His father born 1879 Ireland to Irish parents (so his passport was British).  His mother English (which counted for nothing).   He moved to UK in 1925.  He was not entitled to British citizenship.  He tried getting UK passport and it was a no no.  He refused to pay to become British.   He found it funny in 1980s when, returning from a holiday in France, the immigration officer stamped "allowed in for a limited period".  It is the same thing that happenned to the Windrush people.  Except my father was white, and educated.  The white van men never came for him.  Nor Spike Milligan who had similar.

 

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2 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Ha.  My father was born in NZ.  His father born 1879 Ireland to Irish parents (so his passport was British).  His mother English (which counted for nothing).   He moved to UK in 1925.  He was not entitled to British citizenship.  He tried getting UK passport and it was a no no.  He refused to pay to become British.   He found it funny in 1980s when, returning from a holiday in France, the immigration officer stamped "allowed in for a limited period".  It is the same thing that happenned to the Windrush people.  Except my father was white, and educated.  The white van men never came for him.  Nor Spike Milligan who had similar.

 

I'm guessing you got yourself an Irish passport based on your grandfather's birth in Ireland?

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