BREXIT positives and negatives

996 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, keith2011 said:

On the positive side each plug in appliance was individually fused and polarised for safety b...

 

Futhermore there is a mechanism in the socket whereby the live connectors are protected until the longer earth pin is first inserted.

Avoids the need for these Kindersicherungen you have to buy here when small children are in the house.

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11 hours ago, AlexTr said:

If your plan was to use underpaid labor to suit your needs in old age,

So tell us how you plan to have enough funds available to pay North of €5000/month for caregiving? My plan was based of the law at the time to employ cheap Eastern European labour, just as my grandmother and my wife´s grandfather did. My plan is simply to live in a country where I can afford the services I want.

 

11 hours ago, AlexTr said:

you planned poorly and based on the idea that you are somehow allowed to exploit other people. The first is selber Schuld; the second is a lack of ethics.

Do you think it´s more ethical to let those potential caregivers stay in poverty in their home countries? And more clever to go to understaffed nursing homes rather stay in the comfort of your home and have a private caregiver?

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11 hours ago, keith2011 said:

If you visit Egypt you will find plenty and in Cairo the police control all road crossings, traffic lights being too expensive while policemen's wages are so low.

What is your point?

That you´re kiling jobs if you make employment too expensive.

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3 hours ago, jeba said:

Do you think it´s more ethical to let those potential caregivers stay in poverty in their home countries? And more clever to go to understaffed nursing homes rather stay in the comfort of your home and have a private caregiver?

Don't you think it might be better for these people to stay and invest in their own country so that it economically grows and then has less poverty? What you are proposing is the mass exodus of a population leaving those behind who cannot leave living in worse poverty. What you want and others want to pay each individual won't be enough to make a difference if they sent money home. However you dress it up, it's about you and others like you wanting to get something for as little as possible and that goes along the lines of exploitation.

 

Higher wages don't kill jobs as such they move employment into a other sectors. They said that about mechanising the cotton industry in the UK in the 18th century, people moved to different jobs. People moved out of agriculture and into the towns and cities. Heavy industry in the West is dying, people are moving into Hi-Tec jobs such as IT, those without skills have come out of factories and into logistics as an example. Your argument has no basis.

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How noble of jeba to rescue these poor savages from their backwards home countries and spirit them off to modern civilization, where they can attend to him hand and foot for a slave wage until he turns toes up to the daisies. After all, what's the point of being at the pinnacle of modern civilization if you don't have a couple of indentured servants to enjoy it with you?

 

FFS

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24 minutes ago, French bean said:

Don't you think it might be better for these people to stay and invest in their own country

Invest what? Their savings from their 1-Euro jobs (€1 per 12-hour work day, that is)?

 

24 minutes ago, French bean said:

What you are proposing is the mass exodus of a population leaving those behind who cannot leave living in worse poverty. What you want and others want to pay each individual won't be enough to make a difference if they sent money home.

My cleaning lady (and her son who is working as a petrol attendant) jointly can send enough back home to Sri Lanka to pay school and University fees for her younger children. Having to go back is a horror scenario for them. But surely, you know better what´s best for them.

 

24 minutes ago, French bean said:

Higher wages don't kill jobs as such they move employment into a other sectors

In Germany it will kill jobs for those who can´t or don´t want to upskill themselves. And those are out there. In poor countries there are often no jobs they could upskill them for.

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35 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

How noble of jeba to rescue these poor savages from their backwards home countries and spirit them off to modern civilization, where they can attend to him hand and foot for a slave wage until he turns toes up to the daisies. After all, what's the point of being at the pinnacle of modern civilization if you don't have a couple of indentured servants to enjoy it with you?

 

FFS

What´s your solution? FFS

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4 hours ago, HEM said:

 

Futhermore there is a mechanism in the socket whereby the live connectors are protected until the longer earth pin is first inserted.

Avoids the need for these Kindersicherungen you have to buy here when small children are in the house.

However nowadays you can buy Schuko sockets with spring loaded child safety flaps built in. The actual shrouded design of the Schuko socket is its main safety benefit. The Three pin plug was often pretty dangerous when actually plugging it in as you could quite easily have a finger touching the live pin as you were inserting it. This is less of a problem nowadays as most plug manufacturers added a plastic shroud around the base of the live and neutral pins to do what the Schuko does through shrouding the socket. I assume this is now part of the standard and must be included. I suspect both types are roughly as safe as each other. Both ensure a very good mechanical connection. It's the flimsy two pin blade plug/socket systems in other parts of the world that really need sorting. The worst thing by far about the three pin plug as anyone from a country that uses them can attest to is the pain the inflict when accidentally stood upon. Lego x10.

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1 hour ago, French bean said:

Don't you think it might be better for these people to stay and invest in their own country so that it economically grows and then has less poverty?

So your solution is for them to stay there.

All it needs for that to happen is for work to actually be there for them and for the work to actually pay a living wage so they can invest in their economy rather than them earning barely enough for them to survive.

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1 hour ago, jeba said:

What´s your solution? FFS

 

You could take care of your mother.  I mean, you are retired already and you are a doctor.  More than qualified for the job. :ph34r:

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47 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

You could take care of your mother.  I mean, you are retired already and you are a doctor.  More than qualified for the job. :ph34r:

Too late. She died 3 years ago. My question   didn´t trefer to her or my specific situation. But to all those elderly who can´t afford paying more than € 5000/month.

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3 hours ago, murphaph said:

 I suspect both types are roughly as safe as each other.

Roughly true but the polarisation just about swings it to a 3 pin plug like the UK 13A, problem being most plug in appliances will only have the power switch on one leg of the circuit. With a polarised plug you can always insure the power switch is on the live leg and thus with for example a table lamp switched off it should be safe to replace the bulb without unplugging it (having said that don't try it, always disconnect electric appliances from the supply before working on them) . With a Shucko plug when switching the same lamp off you cannot be sure that if for example you stuck your finger in the bulb holder you would not get a shock!

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3 hours ago, Keleth said:

So your solution is for them to stay there.

All it needs for that to happen is for work to actually be there for them and for the work to actually pay a living wage so they can invest in their economy rather than them earning barely enough for them to survive.

Well, it would be good but reality says that won't happen. The corruption in a number of countries needs to be tackled and I believe that is happening in Albania, Bulgaria and Romania but it will take time. Now with Romania they do have Dacia which I know is only one company but they are paying very good wages and that will filter down into the local economy far better than money being sent home from abroad. Don't forget, this local work force is also paying local taxes. Romania also has an aerospace industry, for example the Puma military helicopter was licensed built in Romania and the RAF sent theirs to Romania for a mid life rebuild. OK it's not a lot but it's a start and far better for the long term than people leaving their home country to work for shit wages in another country.

 

5 hours ago, jeba said:

Invest what? Their savings from their 1-Euro jobs (€1 per 12-hour work day, that is)?

Where's that then? Are you talking about countries such as Vietnam? western companies will always move production to where it's cheapest. Once it's established law of market forces come into effect and wages start to rise. Pressure also needs to be put on the sub-contractors to treat staff fairly. A number of companies are doing that with regular inspections and review of their sub contractors.

5 hours ago, jeba said:

In Germany it will kill jobs for those who can´t or don´t want to upskill themselves. And those are out there. In poor countries there are often no jobs they could upskill them for.

Those people have moved into different sectors, look how many distribution warehouses have been built in the last 20 years. Global market with the likes of Amazon will make sure there are jobs out there.

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2 minutes ago, French bean said:

Those people have moved into different sectors, look how many distribution warehouses have been built in the last 20 years. Global market with the likes of Amazon will make sure there are jobs out there.

 

Yeah.  We just got an Amazon warehouse here in SZ.  I know a couple of guys who started working as delivery drivers and that didn't last long.  They were getting min. wage or even a few cents more but they were only guaranteed 20 hrs. a week (contract says 20-40 hrs.) and if they made a mistake they got docked.  Of course they were not working for Amazon directly but for company xxx contractor of Amazon.  But them's jobs all right.

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11 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

Yeah.  We just got an Amazon warehouse here in SZ.  I know a couple of guys who started working as delivery drivers and that didn't last long.  They were getting min. wage or even a few cents more but they were only guaranteed 20 hrs. a week (contract says 20-40 hrs.) and if they made a mistake they got docked.  Of course they were not working for Amazon directly but for company xxx contractor of Amazon.  But them's jobs all right.

The same is happening in the UK with Zero Hour contracts and delivery drivers being made to go self employed. It's being looked into now by Parliament and a lot of employers are being drawn over the coals for it. For example Uber now have to pay their drivers sick pay and paid leave as they were found to be solely working for Uber and not truly self employed as they couldn't go out and find alternative work. Hermes has had the same ruling. It will take time but those practices will be banned.

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38 minutes ago, French bean said:

The corruption in a number of countries needs to be tackled and I believe that is happening in Albania, Bulgaria and Romania but it will take time.

 

This.   At least from what I know, what is really dragging developing countries is the massive corruption and the inequality.  You can pump all the money you want in those economies but the Crony Capitalism and corruption will end up in that new money being in the pockets of the 0.1% that own most of the country and that money will be either taken out of the country of kept doing nothing in lousy financial investments (by lousy I mean that they do not really help the economy, only makes the rich richer).

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3 hours ago, keith2011 said:

Roughly true but the polarisation just about swings it to a 3 pin plug like the UK 13A, problem being most plug in appliances will only have the power switch on one leg of the circuit. With a polarised plug you can always insure the power switch is on the live leg and thus with for example a table lamp switched off it should be safe to replace the bulb without unplugging it (having said that don't try it, always disconnect electric appliances from the supply before working on them) . With a Shucko plug when switching the same lamp off you cannot be sure that if for example you stuck your finger in the bulb holder you would not get a shock!

That assumes no error was made when wiring the 3 pin plug or indeed the socket. The fact the end user is more or less invited to open them up and wire them is inherently dangerous I suppose. You can't be sure of anything really so as you say, you must assume that either phase could be live and should always completely disconnect any appliance from the supply before working on it.

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