BREXIT positives and negatives

996 posts in this topic

Unfortunately it wasn't just the lies that swung the brexit vote, real earnings and the standard of living has been in decline in the UK since the finance crisis, the Tories disastrous austerity program and supported by  the availability of cheap foreign labour, (immigration and globalisation). Add to that the failure of Cameron to get any easing even temporarily from the EU of the things the leave campaign were using to whip up support, and a general desire for change among voters, though most likely directed against the government rather that the EU. It may well be the biggest legacy of Merkel that she failed to recognise the danger that the UK would really vote to leave!

The shortage of HGV drivers, although aggravated in the UK by brexit, is a problem across Western Europe and the increase in price for gas and food in general is not confined to the UK or anything to do with brexit.

If anyone really believes that all is well and " Germany is a prosperous, stable country"  they should check out the huge lines of people waiting for a food handout at the München Großmarthalle or take a look  at the rough sleepers under the bridges on the Isar and on the streets around Sendlinger Tor, in a city where a 100 m3 apartment will cost you over a million euro and don't forget the AFD  got 10% of the vote!

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May be an image of text that says "Hauliers' reasons for driver shortage Percentage selecting each reason in survey, multiple answers allowed Drivers retiring UK leaving EU IR35* Drivers going to another industry Pay rates Covid-19 Other 0% 20% 40% A survey from earlier *Recent changes have been made to off-payroll working rules, known as IR35 Source: Road Haulage Association survey, 615 responses 60% suggests number of easons for the driver shortage"

 

Regarding the drivers thing, some of the effects are 'cross Europe' like drivers retiring/changing jobs, covid etc, but the IR35 and Brexit stuff is pure tory failure and very much UK specific.

 

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4 hours ago, Janx Spirit said:

 

You have to try to understand that for some there is frustration and the need to throw rattles out of prams.

 

 

 

I try. I do try. I just don't understand how grown-ass people can act like that.

 

4 hours ago, Janx Spirit said:

 

Others, who may entertain the thought of a visit to loved ones in the UK, find threads like these essential. For instance, I didn't know there was a fuel shortage until I read it on TT.

 

I get it. I am a newshound about what's going on in Atlanta when I am heading home.

 

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

Personally I think it's very important to constantly remind people of the lies told in the run up to the referendum. The stuff that was dismissed as project fear has mostly come to pass. In fact much of the "worst case scenario of a no deal Brexit" as outlined in the Operation Yellowhammer documents has also come to pass and there was a (bare bones) deal.

 

Brexiteers and leave voters should not be let off the hook for the billions of pounds worth of damage done.

 

Brexit is already failing. A comprehensive US FTA was absolutely essential to give Brexit any chance of not being a complete shitshow. That is not happening. The UK has a big decision to make... persevere with this madness or throw the towel in and seek membership of the single market and customs union.

 

If the current or more likely the next government does throw in the towel, I hope they are prepared to compensate the EU member states that have spent hundreds of millions on Brexit themselves. All those new customs officers, often with jobs for life, have to be paid for.

 

I have edited three post-graduate papers on the failures of the recent right-wing authoritarian/faux populist movements in the last three weeks. They all arrived at similar conclusions following several methodologies.

 

What seems verifiably clear is that the authoritarians masquerading as populists are unable to develop and implement policies due to inexperience and an unrealistic view of their sphere of influence.  This is demonstrated quite well by Johnson's abject inability to convince Joe Biden that the meager trade offered by the UK is worth prioritizing. 

 

In other words, the fecking morons smoked their own supply, believed their own bullshit, and drank their own snake oil. They can all DIAF.

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It was not the job of the 27 other member states to change their rules because the UK public allowed themselves to be hoodwinked by the Murdoch media for 40 years. Did you know for example, that France takes in about three times more refugees than the UK, despite having a similar population and similarly sized economy? I bet you didn't because the Murdoch press has been screaming that France just forwards all its asylum seekers to Blighty, when it simply does not.

 

And Merkel never got to dictate what concessions, if any the EU could have made to Cameron. Can't believe you still believe the EU is run by Berlin.

 

Oh and let's please NEVER forget that EU migration from the eastern accession states could have been vetoed by the UK as it was vetoed in much of the EU. The UK chose not to limit inward migration from the EU in any way shape or form.

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54 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Unfortunately it wasn't just the lies that swung the brexit vote, real earnings and the standard of living has been in decline in the UK since the finance crisis, the Tories disastrous austerity program and supported by  the availability of cheap foreign labour, (immigration and globalisation). Add to that the failure of Cameron to get any easing even temporarily from the EU of the things the leave campaign were using to whip up support, and a general desire for change among voters, though most likely directed against the government rather that the EU. It may well be the biggest legacy of Merkel that she failed to recognise the danger that the UK would really vote to leave!

The shortage of HGV drivers, although aggravated in the UK by brexit, is a problem across Western Europe and the increase in price for gas and food in general is not confined to the UK or anything to do with brexit.

If anyone really believes that all is well and " Germany is a prosperous, stable country"  they should check out the huge lines of people waiting for a food handout at the München Großmarthalle or take a look  at the rough sleepers under the bridges on the Isar and on the streets around Sendlinger Tor, in a city where a 100 m3 apartment will cost you over a million euro and don't forget the AFD  got 10% of the vote!

Labour costs is such a big ball of string no government has wanted to try to touch it for years.

Higher costs lead to higher prices etc, etc etc... One of the only reasons people are not more unhappy is that we have had access to cheap stuff.

 

The funny thing is, that ball of string isn't really so complicated, it'd actually kept there to hide a small bit of info, the info that higher labour costs do not have to be passed on to the customer if the company involved are making a large profit anyway. 

Almost all of the UK supermarkets could give every worker maybe an extra quid an hour and just deal with it. Amazon could pay quite a bit more than they do and not pass it on to their customers.

They just don't want to, or the people in charge don't or feel they have to. I can imagine a CEO of a PLC saying they want to increase pay and that would slash profits 50% would be out at the next share holder meeting.

 

The AFD, quite big in Saxony but they dropped 1.5/2 percentage points from last time. The Mrs was listening to an interview with three of the AFD upper leader types and all they were doing was attacking each other. With any luck they will split themselves up.

 

Talking about why it happened doesn't really have anything to do with how it's going. It only tries to add justification, Brexit the vote has happened, brexit the consequences is still going on.

 

Hence, the thread title. If this were an operation that went pear shaped we wouldn't be sitting in a room talking about why the operation was done, we'd be looking at the consequences.

If any of us had advised the patient to not get it done and the patient said "shut up, I don't need advice from so called experts, you're just trying to scare me" etc, I have no doubt some of us would be saying "well, we did mention this"..

 

 

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Its basically the media that decides how things will be run - less so the actual politicians.

And not just in the UK.

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It's particularly bad in the UK with Murdoch especially. Murdoch was and is a nobody outside the Anglosphere and that bothers him and his vanity, hence his motive to destroy the EU.

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8 minutes ago, pappnase said:

May be an image of text that says "Hauliers' reasons for driver shortage Percentage selecting each reason in survey, multiple answers allowed Drivers retiring UK leaving EU IR35* Drivers going to another industry Pay rates Covid-19 Other 0% 20% 40% A survey from earlier *Recent changes have been made to off-payroll working rules, known as IR35 Source: Road Haulage Association survey, 615 responses 60% suggests number of easons for the driver shortage"

 

Regarding the drivers thing, some of the effects are 'cross Europe' like drivers retiring/changing jobs, covid etc, but the IR35 and Brexit stuff is pure tory failure and very much UK specific.

 

This cracks me up. I've read in a few places that brexit is not the cause of the shortage of drivers, here is a shortage all over Europe.

We just removed freedom of movement making it harder to get drivers in to the UK. A lot of them will just stay and work in Europe. 

I'm sure this kind of problem was mentioned a few times over the last 5 years or so.

 

Although, my personal measure of how well it's going is how much a few certain posters are posting. When they have wandered off then it must be gong really badly. 

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1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

Although, my personal measure of how well it's going is how much a few certain posters are posting. When they have wandered off then it must be gong really badly. 

 

dr_x.jpg.e72a73b1de51400fc1c8d89f4d033e4

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Well this discussion seemed to be going rather well until that last post, why do people post such rubbish?

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10 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Well this discussion seemed to be going rather well until that last post, why do people post such rubbish?

 

 

Because as you said, even the people who voted BREXT in the UK, can now see that maybe it was not the best thing to do ...

 

Seems lots of people now think BREXIT was the wrong thing to do, but will leave it there, because they do not want even more arguments to come up and maybe even look a bit  follish.

 

Thought the pic was supposed to represent someone, thinking to hard about BREXIT and asking themselves why they did it, not a direct insult to them, but I guess some people will get offended in an easy way.

 

I get the impression you think BREXIT was a bad idea, but thought is was right to go along with the result of the vote, which would be fine for me as well, if there had not been so much lying going on from the BREXT side, to cause the vote

 

 

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1 hour ago, yesterday said:

I get the impression you think BREXIT was a bad idea, but thought is was right to go along with the result of the vote

You are not wrong there, I think brexit is terrible and has been bad for me both financially and personally but I am quite happy to engage in sensible adult discussion about it and accept there is another side of the argument without resorting to posting imo insulting and unfunny memes.

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So why can't "the other side of the argument" come up with any positives?

 

We've been waiting for a while.

 

Seems like TOSOTA has left.

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55 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

You are not wrong there, I think brexit is terrible and has been bad for me both financially and personally but I am quite happy to engage in sensible adult discussion about it and accept there is another side of the argument without resorting to posting imo insulting and unfunny memes.

I try not to be insulting as most people can see from my posts

 

What different people can find funny or not will depend on the person, but I get the impression the above pic was meant to be funny not insulting, but as said some may find it offensive

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I think there is a real chance that the UK may apply to rejoin the EU sooner or later.

 

(A bit like the stories of people divorcing, then starting over again together).

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Ha.  Presumably because the EU will beg, as they love them so much.  Life without them is just impossible.  All is forgiven, my love, please return.

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Guess it is positive for the lorry drivers in the UK

 

They are getting pay rises all the time at the moment the same is happening in the food production area, still that may cost the UK consumer more money as well, is that a positive ??

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22 hours ago, keith2011 said:

It may well be the biggest legacy of Merkel that she failed to recognise the danger that the UK would really vote to leave!

 

Blaming Merkel for Brexit? Really?

 

What's next? Blaming her for killing your tomato plants and getting your dog pregnant?

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