BREXIT positives and negatives

[yesterday 1,980]

We would rather have no fuel than foreigners in Britain

 

Boy O boy  nothing says ciaos more than this shit shower 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/supply-crisis-govt-suspends-competition-laws-to-allow-fuel-companies-to-tackle-shortages-12419291

 

Fuel supply crisis: Competition laws suspended to tackle shortages - as government considers calling up army

 

 

After last week,  Kwasi Kwarteng saying there was no problem, now we see the UK Government in full crises meetings, with Patel, being told to shut the fuck up 

and accept more foreigners to drive the trucks.

 

 

 

 

 

[El Jeffo 42,120]

Promises made...

Promises kept!

[HEM 11,077]

7 minutes ago, yesterday said:

and accept more foreigners to drive the truck.

 

Its debatable whether "foreigners" will want to drive truicks in the UK.

 

A guy in my flying club runs a small LKW-firm & he says its next to impossible to get truck drivers here - by that he means reliable drivers who don't piss off customers by bad behaviour.

[robinson100 12,792]

No fuel available? What a wonderful way to encourage people to buy electric cars!

[French bean 3,463]

Spoke to my brother yesterday whilst he was in a queue waiting to refuel in the UK. We were talking about the advantages of having an EV, top of the list was not having to queue for fuel.

[MikeMelga 7,254]

The problem is not foreign drivers. The problem is shitty salaries than only foreign would accept.

[MikeMelga 7,254]

59 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

No fuel available? What a wonderful way to encourage people to buy electric cars!

But... but... recharging takes FOREVER! Hahaha, i think people are now getting the point of EVs!

[Dembo 499]

59 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

No fuel available? What a wonderful way to encourage people to buy electric cars!

Except for the electric car shortage. And the electricity shortage ;-)

 

[MikeMelga 7,254]

1 minute ago, Dembo said:

Except for the electric car shortage. And the electricity shortage ;-)

EV shortage will just get worst until 2030-2035. Within 1 year you will have to wait 6-18 months for an EV. Tesla is already sold out in US till March.

Things will only improve when battery factories catch up with demand, within 10 years.

[Krieg 14,935]

17 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

The problem is not foreign drivers. The problem is shitty salaries than only foreign would accept.

 

This plus I think drivers do not get paid for the waiting time at border crossing that can be anything from 6 to 72 hours.

[Tap 8,460]

There are a lot of mixed messages coming from the UK this morning, so far I've heard "this has nothing to do with Brixit", "there's no shortage of truck drivers", "there's plenty of petrol, they just can't get through", to "yes, this is to do with Brixit" and "yes, there's a huge shortage of drivers" - I've heard all of this on various breakfast programmes this morning, what to believe!

 

Over the weekend, I also heard a manager of a large haulage company say that he's had a lot of enquiries from Eastern European truck drivers just waiting to come back to the UK, and other people saying that they don't want to come back because it's not worth the money.

 

There's an element of truth to some of this, but it's hard to distinguish between it all.  There's also a lot of blame on the media and/or the Government for causing the panic. I read a couple of comments where it was said that it's the same all over Europe, which I know it isn't.

 

It's a mess and someone needs to take control of it, but I doubt that will be Boris, he seems to enjoy the chaos.

[yesterday 1,980]

I heard, Boris want to get this fixed, its Patel ( and her friends ), who does not want to increase the number of foreign workers in the UK

 

Boris will just bend with which ever the wind is blowing, does not really care as long as he keeps power, I cannot believe he is so  popular, given all the negative consequences of BREXIT so far.- I do not get the impression things will change much in the future.

 

The transport minister, was on the TV over the weekend saying, that the shortages are good for UK drivers as it pushes up their wages, if the UK bringing in large numbers of foreign drivers in, that pressure will relax, which is why the Government will only bringing in 5000 or so drivers, which will not help as the UK needs about 100,000

 

I find it hard to believe, that Boris will allow the country, not to have a normal Christmas, because of the hard brexiters, that will looses a lot of votes, which he caries about.

 

 

[yesterday 1,980]

49 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

The problem is not foreign drivers. The problem is shitty salaries than only foreign would accept.

and very shitty working conditions

 

if my company sends me to a meeting where I have to stay over they pay for the hotel and meals, transport ie everything

 

If a truck driver has to stay away, he ( 99% ) has to sleep over in the cabin and eat shitty sandwiches or pay for a meal himself, with really shit public toilet facilitates on offer

[Janx Spirit 11,077]

[optimista 5,840]

Yeah but they get away from the wife and kids and get travel perks. Just joking.

 

Much of what is on the road should be in freight trains... if only investment and long term planning were concepts the government understood.

[French bean 3,463]

I was a truck driver in the UK before coming to Germany and really people need to understand what it is to drive a truck in the modern world.

 

First of all it is 12 -15 hours a day, yes the driving regulations limits working time to 48 hours a week but that is an average over a 17 week period so all that happens is that you do a few short days to reduce your average. Start time for me was between half past midnight and 5am, how many people are actually prepared to work those hours. The tachos were not a problem, the issue now is the satellite tracking that registers key data on how the truck was driven. e.g we were measured on acceleration, braking, idle time for the engine, fuel consumption. I often got back to the depot to be told that I'd braked excessively. There was no interest to the fact that I'd been delivering in London where cyclists have a Kamikaze attitude to trucks and car drivers don't give a shit about the damage 26 Tonnes can do to them. Just after I came here a former colleague told me that they were introducing cameras into the cabs on the premise that they would only be checked if an accident is recorded. The fact that they're running all the time is not supposed to have anything to do with it.

 

Now lets look at actually getting a licence. You need lessons then you need a test, before that you need a medical and after that you need a Tacho card and a CPC (Certificate of Personal Competence) which requires 35 hours of theory to be renewed every 5 years. add that up today and that's probably 4k before you even start to earn. Next, once you've passed your test, very few companies are going to employ you because insurers don't like drivers with under 2 years experience. So, if you make it that far then you have to start with Agency work which really is taking the piss. Only paid when you work, for Class C (Rigids) it was about 8.50GBP an hour 8 years ago, I can't see it being much better than minimum wage now, for C+E (Artics) it was around 12GBP an hour.

 

Now I worked for two highly reputable companies both delivering food to pubs and restaurants, the first was fair when it came to accidents because we would deliver to town centres, not easy in an 18 or 26 ton rigid, the policy was three accidents in a year and then a disciplinary. The latter was a nightmare, automatic disciplinary for the slightest infringement and it was "bring the guilty bastard in" I was put on a disciplinary for supposedly hitting a wall. When the outlets own CCTV proved I hadn't done so, they changed the disciplinary to not following company procedures. At least half the drivers there had at least a written warning with the majority on a final.

 

Now as for foreign workers, everywhere I went, agency or on the books, the foreign drivers were paid the same and treated the same. So lets put all this stuff about shortage of drivers into perspective. Fewer people are getting licences because it's too expensive. Once you have a licence it's long unsociable hours for shitty money taking into account the responsibility. If you make it that far then often the attitude of the employer is against the employee. And as for why there aren't many foreign drivers anymore, there's a shortage in every European country, with the UK out of Europe who would seriously want to go to the UK on a temporary visa being away from friends and family.

[dstanners 1,529]

Good to have a first hand account from @French bean. I was speaking with my (UK-based) family over the weekend, and over the past fortnight they (in social services) have lost a few drivers who have gone to take up contracts as lorry drivers, as the delivery companies have started to increase rates massively (anecdotally an increase of £20 per hour). It seems as though this was a sector which was long-overdue a re-assessment of rates. Perhaps if the bit of hardship (empty shelves etc) caused by Brexit, leads to an increase in rates for certain professions, then the short-term hardship might not be such a bad thing. Perhaps a realisation that not all work should be a race to the bottom on price.

[cb6dba 7,318]

Sounds logical. You have a job with a deceasing pool of workers (as it is a crap job, I know I wouldn't want to have to do it) and then the removal of a system that made it easier to get foreign drivers over to the UK.

Even if the loss of freedom of movement isn't a one:one cause, it would certainly make the problem worse.

 

Although this was always the unseen benefit of being able to easily get foreign workers over, they are wiling to do the jobs local people do not want to (for whatever reason). Either because of unemployment back home or the pay in the UK for job (although low by local standards) was high enough to make it worth while.

 

 

 

 

[French bean 3,463]

@cb6dba whilst a lot of hauliers are crap to work for (Stobarts have a really bad reputation) some are quite good. I stuck to multi drop in the catering industry because there were no nights out, I was well fed and watered at a number of restaurants and because the job was physically demanding It kept me extremely fit. As an example I would go out and deliver to a couple of pubs a couple of carvery's then a couple of restaurant groups such as Frankie and Bennies. That would be a full truck with 6 tonnes on board which had to be offloaded by hand. Once you've lifted 30 No. 25kg sacks of potatoes you really have no need for a gym.

 

The key is to avoid the small independent hauliers because they do take the piss. I went for an interview with one who was quite reputable in the area and he offered just over minimum wage with a 30GBP weekly bonus that was rescinded if they spotted any damage on the vehicle. Once he explained that I made it very plain I wasn't prepared to work for that.

[Dembo 499]

Supply and demand innit. Politics has taken away some of the supply; the demand is still there so lorry drivers will end up being paid more. Which in turn pushes up the prices of everything, including fuel which in turn pushes up the price of everything. Consumers have to pay more without earning more (unless they're lorry drivers) and some business lines which were viable won't be any more, resulting in job losses. 

 

The economy just has to find a new level. The problem at the moment is everybody seems to be in denial about it, and in particular that they haven't introduced the inevitable customs checks on goods coming into the UK. They know that'll be another nightmare and anothing big drag on the economy. But this is what the people voted for.