What's the issue with dual nationality?

308 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, wien4ever said:

Well well well... So the "real German" finally reveals himself.

 

This is not true. He has revealed himself many times over. He hasn't changed his views on this topic and others over the years. It's best to stop engaging with him. 

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46 minutes ago, engelchen said:

You are just realising this now

Nah I realised a while ago, but this was the 'straw that broke the camels back'. 

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When ever he crawls out from the stone he is living under, I would urge people not to engage, a simple fuck off, racist bastard, will be my response from now on.

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OK, I'm guilty of pouring scorn on Jeba but I welcome the dialogue. For what it's worth, in my opinion, Jeba is not a troll (unlike other recent members). He has his beliefs and shares them. I may disagree with him on many things but I defend his right to say it. It's a slightly odd forum to be expressing these type of views but he's hardly alone in the world having these views (think Brexit).

 

I said that he was saying the quiet part out loud and I meant it. In the dark, primitive areas of my brain I probably hold some similar views. Hell, when I was a kid, reading the bible in school assemblies surrounded by other middle class white kids, I definitely entertained prejudiced thoughts.

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7 minutes ago, theGman said:

Jeba is not a troll (unlike other recent members). He has his beliefs and shares them. I may disagree with him on many things but I defend his right to say it. It's a slightly odd forum to be expressing these type of views but he's hardly alone in the world having these views (think Brexit).

 

I don't see why a forum intended for English speaking foreigners in Germany tolerates a racist German poster living in Cyprus. 

 

7 minutes ago, theGman said:

reading the bible in school assemblies surrounded by other middle class white kids, I definitely entertained prejudiced thoughts.

 

Is it really so hard for a privileged white man to understand why visible minorities could be offended by the acceptance of such a xenophobe on this forum? There are many other white posters who can grasp the issue. 

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Germany NEEDS young foreigners too. It does not produce enough little Germans to pay for the pensions of older Germans like jeba :-) Germany should be a lot MORE friendly towards people coming here to contribute to the German economy.

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2 minutes ago, engelchen said:

I don't see why a forum intended for English speaking foreigners in Germany tolerates a racist German poster living in Cyprus. 

 

Is it really so hard for a privileged white man to understand why visible minorities could be offended by the acceptance of such a xenophobe on this forum? There are many other white posters who can grasp the issue. 

 

Would you rather he disappeared over to an AfD forum? If Brexit/Trump/Covid has taught me anything it's that everyone living in their own bubble and not exploring/soundboarding outside of their own circle is dangerous. I'd rather he hang out here where we immigrants can try to educate him on life as an immigrant in Germany.

 

I wouldn't say he is being accepted here. He is being shouted down to on a very regular basis. I would be uncomfortable with shutting down discourse completely.

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3 minutes ago, theGman said:

 

Would you rather he disappeared over to an AfD forum?

 

Yes! 

 

3 minutes ago, theGman said:

 

If Brexit/Trump/Covid has taught me anything it's that everyone living in their own bubble and not exploring/soundboarding outside of their own circle is dangerous. I'd rather he hang out here where we immigrants can try to educate him on life as an immigrant in Germany.

 

Based on how long he has been here and how many times posters have tried engaging him, it is clear that he is a lost cause. No amount of rational arguments will change his xenophobic core.

 

3 minutes ago, theGman said:

I wouldn't say he is being accepted here. He is being shouted down to on a very regular basis.

 

Which seems to be a waste of time.

 

3 minutes ago, theGman said:

I would be uncomfortable with shutting down discourse completely.

 

Why? He is beyond change.

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4 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

12 minutes ago, theGman said:

 

Would you rather he disappeared over to an AfD forum?

 

Yes! 

 

Fair enough. I disagree with that so I guess that's where our main difference lies.

 

4 minutes ago, engelchen said:

Based on how long he has been here and how many times posters have tried engaging him, it is clear that he is a lost cause. No amount of rational arguments will change his xenophobic core.

 

Which seems to be a waste of time.

 

Why? He is beyond change.

 

To that I would only say that, regardless of whether he himself will change his views, the discussion is public and a public discussion of opposing views is, in my opinion, a good thing.

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5 minutes ago, theGman said:

 

To that I would only say that, regardless of whether he himself will change his views, the discussion is public and a public discussion of opposing views is, in my opinion, a good thing.

 

It is only a good thing if Jeba sees the light, but he does not appear to see anything, apart from I am German and I do not want any foreigners having the vote in Germany, no matter how good a person is.

 

I understand his view, but I would rather he joins his like thinking mates in the AFD, rather than him try and convince me that I am not as good as a German

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31 minutes ago, yesterday said:

I understand his view, but I would rather he joins his like thinking mates in the AFD, rather than him try and convince me that I am not as good as a German

If this forum was populated entirely by people who were easily swayed by jeba's arguments, it could perhaps be unpleasant for young, uninformed new arrivals using the site as a safe place where they could avoid right-wing views. But personally I think there is something to be said for threads like this, where people discuss the points he is making in a way that shows any young, uninformed new arrivals some potential ways of dealing with views they are pretty likely to come across in real life.

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The way I see it, online forums just allow cowards to show their true colours behind the 'anonymity' of the Internet. These aren't discussions because these people never change their opinions - it's just a risk free way to vent. 

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1 hour ago, theGman said:

Would you rather he disappeared over to an AfD forum?

 

How do you know he isn't on one already? Many people use more than one forum.

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Ok i didn't realize Jeba is a known quantity. I don't keep that close an eye on all the characters here. But, yeah I agree it's his right to express his views here. It's useful for foreigners to know what some people here think of them. Keeps one grounded 😋

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On 29/09/2021, 18:33:11, jeba said:

Because I don´t want people with different backgrounds, norms and values (as compared to the locals) to be able to vote. It´s already annoying enough that there are e.g. exceptions from animal protection laws (slaughtering animals) or tolerance for genital mutilation (circumcision) for certain groups. Plus I feel it´s not for immigrants to tip the scales in elections. Just think of the latest election results with the CDU/CSU and SPD coming out neck on neck. It may well have been a different outcome, had there been less immigrants able to vote.

 

The fallacy of thinking that the immigrants will massively vote left.    The votes CDU/CSU have been losing in the past two elections are there in the right side of the scale, they went to AfD and FDP.   If you add up all the left and all the right wing votes in the past 10 elections nothing has changed, Germany is pretty much 50/50.

 

P.S., I will ignore the discriminatory and borderline racist parts of your comment.

 

P.P.S. I can't be a racist, my girlfriend is a foringirrrr!!!!!!!!!!

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Jeba is Bavarian, so I think he's not AFD but a staunch CSU/CDU supporter, and he's dissapointed that they didn't do well in the elections and is blaming it on the immigrants with dual citizenship tipping the scales to his party's disadvantage, which is roughly what he says here:

 

On 29.9.2021, 18:33:11, jeba said:

Just think of the latest election results with the CDU/CSU and SPD coming out neck on neck. It may well have been a different outcome, had there been less immigrants able to vote.

 

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On 29/09/2021, 18:33:11, jeba said:

Just think of the latest election results with the CDU/CSU and SPD coming out neck on neck. It may well have been a different outcome, had there been less immigrants able to vote.


I heard recently from a local debate amongst middle to elderly aged people that many thought that CDU/CSU would automatically be voted against by non German native persons as the party names include ‘Christian’. I wonder if there’s possibly any truth in that theory?

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15 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

The fallacy of thinking that the immigrants will massively vote left.    The votes CDU/CSU have been losing in the past two elections are there in the right side of the scale, they went to AfD and FDP.   If you add up all the left and all the right wing votes in the past 10 elections nothing has changed, Germany is pretty much 50/50.

 

P.S., I will ignore the discriminatory and borderline racist parts of your comment.

 

P.P.S. I can't be a racist, my girlfriend is a foringirrrr!!!!!!!!!!

 

AFD is not a classical right-wing party in that they are not necessarily low tax and pro business but have lots of spending ideas and they managed to attract a lot of dissatisfied SPD voters, especially in the East.

 

So if your statement is true that the right / left balance did not shift despite the huge walkover of SPD voters, then something somewhere is seeing other right wing parties losing support to the left.

 

I also see lots of immigrants or second and third generation immigrants in SPD and Greens but struggle to think of many in the CDU or FDP, not even on a local level. And I don't think that's because they are being kept down but because they are not attracted to such parties in the first place. So I do think that immigration is bolstering the left.

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22 hours ago, catjones said:

 

a distinction without a difference.  the implication is that others who slaughter are untrained amateurs with dull knives.

The implication is that secular people do not fight for their rights as much as religious people do. This is sad.

 

19 hours ago, Keleth said:

It´s a religious things and if something or another is banned on religious grounds then you will never convince the followers of said religion that their way is not the best way and they´ll always believe the other ways are all wrong.

I am an atheist, and I don't care if the meat is kosher or not. But just because something is religious does not mean it is automatically nonsense.

 

In this case, it is not. Kashrut was invented 2000 years ago for people living in a desert without refrigerators and unlimited access to clean water. These rules are unnecessary with modern tech and hygiene, but they are not bullshit. If animal welfare is important to you, you ban foie gras which is animal torture. It is legal in Belgium, though, because Jews do not do it, it is "local tradition".

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28 minutes ago, hamogles said:

AFD is not a classical right-wing party in that they are not necessarily low tax and pro business but have lots of spending ideas and they managed to attract a lot of dissatisfied SPD voters, especially in the East.

Here we go again with typical American "Hitler was a socialist". In Europe and Middle East, being right wing has nothing to do with economics. Period.

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