What's the issue with dual nationality?

317 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, wien4ever said:

I hope dual citizenship makes it through! Although I wouldn't lower the residence requirement. I think even 10 years is fair. Hopefully that is enough loyalty for ze Germans...

 

In my book that would be the minimum. I´m kicking myself for having voted FDP, based on the assumption that they would coalesce with CDU/CSU. Traitors.

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To believe that the FDP - with their track record since the 1970s as the "kingmaker"  (a nicer word for opportunist) in varying political coalitions - would stick with the CDU/CSU I find rather naive.

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11 hours ago, jeba said:

In my book that would be the minimum. I´m kicking myself for having voted FDP, based on the assumption that they would coalesce with CDU/CSU. Traitors.

 

Lolll.

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For those Brits who got ambushed by Brexit, thus no longer qualifying as EU nationals, hoping this dual nationality bill gets passed. It will feel good not having to walk past political party stands, saying sorry, doesn't apply to me. More than that, there are so many situations in Germany where you get confronted with being divided up into EU and Non-EU.  Passport control being only one example. 

 

Just hope it doesn't get toppled by the Bundesrat where the CDU/CSU have a majority.   

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1 hour ago, alexunterwegs said:

It will feel good not having to walk past political party stands, saying sorry, doesn't apply to me. 

 

I am happy to do just that!

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On 11/27/2021, 5:28:16, jeba said:

In my book that would be the minimum. I´m kicking myself for having voted FDP, based on the assumption that they would coalesce with CDU/CSU. Traitors.

 

We are all going to be (fake) Germans and there is nothing you can do.

 

I might vote Die Linke (which I hate) just to make you angry.

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For me, I can't see any moral justification for denying someone rights if they legally reside in a country. And here I mean voting. If you live somewhere legally, you are required to follow the rules, so there are obligations. But that should be a two way street, you should also have some say in the politics via voting.

You can logically put some conditions down that are not too onerous (learn the language, culture, a set time, a test) but if you want to call yourself a democracy, you should allow residents a say in decisions.

Would that change Germany? Certainly. I don't assume it would be for the worse. Since a lot of immigrants are not starting at the top end of the social /wage scale, they would naturally want to limit more immigrants who compete with them. In the US the various immigrant groups were quite often at odds with one another. 

It might be better in the long run to risk it and offer a limited right to vote which does not necessarily include citizenship. That could go either way.

But a lot of people in the western democracies on the lower end of the spectrum feel left out of the political decision making process. If a large number of new potential voters entered that pool, maybe politicians would be more responsive to that group.

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In the new government's policy document:

 

"Um neue Potenziale für den Wirtschafts- und Wissenschaftsstandort Deutschland zu erschließen,
wollen wir, dass Menschen aus anderen Ländern in unserem Land leichter studieren oder eine
Ausbildung machen können.

 

Wir schaffen ein modernes Staatsangehörigkeitsrecht. Dafür werden wir die Mehrfachstaatsangehörigkeit ermöglichen und den Weg zum Erwerb der deutschen 
Staatsangehörigkeit vereinfachen. Eine Einbürgerung soll in der Regel nach fünf Jahren möglich
sein, bei besonderen Integrationsleistungen nach drei Jahren. Eine Niederlassungserlaubnis soll nach
drei Jahren erworben werden können. In Deutschland geborene Kinder ausländischer Eltern werden
mit ihrer Geburt deutsche Staatsbürgerinnen bzw. Staatsbürger, wenn ein Elternteil seit fünf Jahren
einen rechtmäßigen gewöhnlichen Aufenthalt im Inland hat. Für zukünftige Generationen prüfen wir,
wie sich ausländische Staatsbürgerschaften nicht über Generationen vererben.

 

In Anerkennung ihrer Lebensleistung wollen wir die Einbürgerung für Angehörige der sogenannten
Gastarbeitergeneration erleichtern, deren Integration lange Zeit nicht unterstützt wurde, indem wir
für diese Gruppe das nachzuweisende Sprachniveau senken. Zudem schaffen wir eine allgemeine
Härtefallregelung für den erforderlichen Sprachnachweis. Das Einbürgerungserfordernis der
„Einordnung in die deutschen Lebensverhältnisse“ werden wir durch klare Kriterien ersetzen. Wir
werden mit einer Kampagne über die Möglichkeiten zum Erwerb der deutschen Staatsangehörigkeit
werben und begrüßen die Durchführung von Einbürgerungsfeiern ausdrücklich"

 

A rather poor translation by google, but it gives the idea...

 

"In order to develop new potential for Germany as a business and science location,
we want people from other countries to study more easily in our country or one
Be able to do training.

 

We are creating a modern citizenship law. For this we will enable multiple citizenship and the way to acquire German
Simplify citizenship. As a rule, naturalization should be possible after five years
be, with special integration achievements after three years. A settlement permit should after
three years can be acquired. Children born in Germany to foreign parents
German citizens at birth, if one parent has been for five years
has a lawful habitual residence in Germany. For future generations we will examine
how foreign citizenships are not passed on through generations.

 

In recognition of their lifetime achievement, we want naturalization for members of the so-called
Facilitate the generation of guest workers whose integration has not been supported for a long time by us
lower the language level to be proven for this group. We are also creating a general one
Hardship regulation for the required language certificate. The naturalization requirement of the
We will replace “classification in German living conditions” with clear criteria. we
are running a campaign about the possibilities of acquiring German citizenship
explicitly advertise and welcome the implementation of naturalization celebrations"

 

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12 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

Just hope it doesn't get toppled by the Bundesrat where the CDU/CSU have a majority.  

 

In the next 6 months there are elections in 3 states, which are Saarland, SH, and NRW. If the current coalition wins in these states, they will also have the majority in the Bundesrat. 

 

I am also curious about the new reduced conditions to apply. What we know so far is that, the required duration of legal residence will be reduced, and the language requirements for the first generation guest workers. 

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More Einbuergerungsfeiern/Naturalisation Celebrations?

 

Please not.

 

I was reluctant to apply for fear of having to attend a ceremony! %(

..

A child gets most rights at 18. Seems reasonable for an adult to wait eight years.

..

I was reading the statistical report for my town, so many Auslaender/foreign citizens. Were the figures adjusted when I got German citizenship? One more German, one less foreigner? I do still have Migrationshuntergrund, whatever that is.

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doch

On 28.11.2021, 13:18:03, scook17 said:

Dafür werden wir die Mehrfachstaatsangehörigkeit ermöglichen und den Weg zum Erwerb der deutschen 
Staatsangehörigkeit vereinfachen

 

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On 11/28/2021, 2:42:53, Metall said:

But none of this is about *dual* citizenship...

You're right. 'Dual' is too limiting. It is indeed about 'multiple' citizenship, i.e. the removal of the blanket requirement of just a single nationality. 

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In Spain it takes 10 years to acquire citizenship: not everybody can live under the sun, you know ☀️.

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On 28/11/2021, 02:45:30, HEM said:

I am happy to do just that!

 

Absolutely!

 

If anyone attempts to accost me in the street with a clipboard (to sign something, to subscribe to something or just generally waste my time talking bollox) I automatically become very haughty and say very loudly: "I'm awfully sorry! I'm English!" and stride on.

 

Alternatively, if someone without a clipboard approaches me in the street and starts with a polite "Entschuldigung" (they usually want directions) I'm more than happy to stop, drop my haughtiness and converse politely with them in their guttural mother tongue to help them on their way. 

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2 hours ago, Chelski said:

I'm awfully sorry! I'm English!"

 

1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

LOL

 

Don't knock it Sister because it works on many levels!

 

I've had a few routine traffic stops where I understand perfectly what documents the cop is asking for and apply a modified response: "I'm awfully sorry officer. I'm English!" The confusion in their eyes says it all... and I just get waved on. Without showing any documents! :lol:

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I'm pretty sure we have all done similar in certain circumstances. Jehovah's witnesses comes to mind as well as the clipboard people on the street.

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