What's the issue with dual nationality?

294 posts in this topic

Just now, yesterday said:

 

yes, but you will never really state, which reasons people should be allowed to dual ( or more ) citizenship and which restrictions you would place on people, to stop people being able to vote even if they are citizens in national elections

For dual citizenship that would be easy: You´d have to prove hardship if you don´t get it (e.g. losing the right to own property in your home country). For immigrants being allowed to vote I´d like to have the bar raised and some sort of vetting process, e.g. similar to that you have to pass if you want to become a police officer.

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13 hours ago, cb6dba said:

Well that answered at least one question from the ones I posted that you seemed to have tried to dodge.

Firstly, if you had read the whole thread you´d have know that already and secondly: which other question have I dodged in your mind?

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3 minutes ago, jeba said:

For dual citizenship that would be easy: You´d have to prove hardship if you don´t get it (e.g. losing the right to own property in your home country). For immigrants being allowed to vote I´d like to have the bar raised and some sort of vetting process, e.g. similar to that you have to pass if you want to become a police officer.

 

I guess those requirements to vote would apply to Germans as well, I mean do you want un educated Germans to be albe to vote  or they should as well have to prove they could become a police officer?

 

 

Would it be harder for immigrants from different countries to get citizenship, ie harder for Americans or Africans ?

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7 minutes ago, yesterday said:

I guess those requirements to vote would apply to Germans as well, I mean do you want un educated Germans to be albe to vote  or they should as well have to prove they could become a police officer?

If it was practicable I´d be in favour of it. I didn´t say you need to be able to become a police officer though. Don´t put words into my mouth. I said similar to the test police aspirants have to pass. 

 

10 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Would it be harder for immigrants from different countries to get citizenship, ie harder for Americans or Africans ?

Why should it?

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10 hours ago, Elljay said:

I think most or many, are actually not that concerned what state they are citizens of.

 

10 hours ago, Elljay said:

Where I live in Sweden

Congratulations, for living in Sweden. Not everyone has such luck. The Finnish had less luck and had to fight for not being absorbed into Russia, back in 1940. 

In 2014 Ukrainians had to fight for not being absorbed into Russia. 

 

Here in Israel the history is more dramatic: Turkey (an empire), then British Mandate, then Israel. The latter has its flaws, but if the Arabs had won back in 1948 then Haifa would have been in Syria. Or Lebannon. These two are not the countries you want to live in for now, even if your native language is Arabic. 

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17 minutes ago, jeba said:

Firstly, if you had read the whole thread you´d have know that already and secondly: which other question have I dodged in your mind?

Maybe the other one in the post, you know, that you don't seem to have read.

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35 minutes ago, jeba said:

One of the reasons is because nowadays residence comes with tax-funded benefits and the right to vote and change the rules and norms.

 

Last time I checked you had to contribute into the system before having access to benefits.  And if you do not have NE status (permanent residence) your permit might be not extended if you are accessing to benefits.

 

What do you suggest then?  That people pay into the system and receive no benefits at all if they are needed?   Germany is having hard times finding the needed people to move here and you want to remove the well earned safety net?  Then do not complain when only unskilled refugees move here, because having the cake and eating the cake normally does not work.

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24 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Last time I checked you had to contribute into the system before having access to benefits.  And if you do not have NE status (permanent residence) your permit might be not extended if you are accessing to benefits.

 

What do you suggest then?  That people pay into the system and receive no benefits at all if they are needed?   Germany is having hard times finding the needed people to move here and you want to remove the well earned safety net?  Then do not complain when only unskilled refugees move here, because having the cake and eating the cake normally does not work.

 If we want to do a TLDR on this.

 

Person moves away from country, says they are patriotic and doesn't want new people back home to be able to vote. 

New people that have spent around 7 years supporting the state, unlike the patriot who is off supporting another. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, yesterday said:

Sure new counties and states are a modern concept (except for the UK, last invaded 1066, I think ), so why has it changed ?

 

My guess is that it is much easier to travel these days, so a lot more people try to swap countires for a better life etc. and of course a lot of natives of the new country complain that there are just too many and it destroys the original style of life and they do not like it.

 

Whats right, not sure there is a right answer, just depends on how you feel

 

For me, I was riding through Garmisch the other day, a nice old Bavarian town, quiet beuatiful in its own way  then you pass the new  muslim mosque on the way into town, for me it looks out of place in the nice Bavarian town, guess the locals think that as well, but maybe its right that we accept new things, which kinda destroys the original feeling of the town.

 

 

The last successful invasion of Great Britain was by William of Orange in 1688. The last unsuccessful one was the Invasion of Fishguard (1797) by France. 

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5 hours ago, yesterday said:

Sure new counties and states are a modern concept (except for the UK, last invaded 1066, I think ), so why has it changed ?

 

The welfare state was introduced.

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20 minutes ago, anne k said:

The welfare state was introduced.

Which seems to be better in France and Germany, so why do people still cross the channel in little rubber boats

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41 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Which seems to be better in France and Germany, so why do people still cross the channel in little rubber boats

I'd imagine in some cases because they can already speak English so think they have better chances there than in a place where they have to learn the language from scratch?

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12 minutes ago, anne k said:

I'd imagine in some cases because they can already speak English so think they have better chances there than in a place where they have to learn the language from scratch?

 

I think it might also have something to do with that failed asylum seekers do not actually have good access to the welfare system and care more about how easy it is to make money working under the table.  I suppose that must be easier in the UK or perceived to be easier at least.  

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Perception indeed

 

My experience is of many garages offering me to do work without tax being added, well at least more than in the UK. But its just what happened to me, maybe very different in general.

 

 

 

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Well, here's a geezer as a candidate for your perfect neighbour and not one I would like to have a vote.

An extreme example, of course.

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21 hours ago, Elljay said:

Just thinking that countries/states are rather a new concept. Historically. And there are "countries" that are not recognised. Like Kurdistan. I think most or many, are actually not that concerned what state they are citizens of. Look at Europe, borders have changed so many times. The pride of country was a thing around 1880, if I remember rightly. For heavens' sake. People have been migrating for ever. Who to say who belongs where? My ancestors came from Sweden, Norway, Finland and Belgium. That is as far as I know, but who knows where they came from originally? What I mean is: we are all kind of clannish, or most of us. Maybe the actual country we are told we live in doesn't matter that much. Since it may change. Where I live in Sweden, the area used to be part of Norway, but then Norway was taken over by Denmark. And then after wars, it got to be Swedish. So nationality is rather arbitrary. Yes. OK, I've had a couple.-_-Just my two öre.

It depends on your background and which country you are from. I wouldn't tell a Japanese  their country is new or a Chinese ( depending on the police presence😂) and I don't think Castro's spirit on the other side would appreciate his " patria o muerte " being renegated to oblivion. 

 

More likely - if the country you come from has been subjugated to invasions in the modern past, you may feel more like your identity is under pressure. Rightly or wrongly. 

 

And I doubt most Scots, Irish, Welsh and English think their countries are new. Some old tombstones in those countries!😂

 

Funnily enough, I watched this today about power-driven, egomanic, cruel arseholes of a different age when the French were English and vice versa (Kings and Queens and stuff)..

https://youtu.be/86aBBuehHPU

Yes, circumstances and you don't choose where you are born ( though some esoterical circles would disagree ) but humans need some kind of identity. 

Cliquish, clannish etc. 

And we can be pretty stupid as a species.

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10 hours ago, Krieg said:

Last time I checked you had to contribute into the system before having access to benefits. 

What part of tax-funded have you not understood?

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On 10/4/2021, 9:53:08, john g. said:

Evening, Leon!👍

I think this is complex. I wonder if people in Indonesia, Mexico or even Iceland think like jeba. My guess is ... I don't know...

 

jeba's opinion is not rare or novel. It's likely his opinion is held by the majority in most countries.

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4 hours ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

jeba's opinion is not rare or novel. It's likely his opinion is held by the majority in most countries.

I doubt that many will be concerned about dual citizenship and voting rights, which is my pet peeve. I guess there will be many more who feel more threatened by the side effects of immigration, such as those on the rental market, the healthcare system, crime rate or competition.

 While I´m aware of and concerned about these thing as well, I´m at least also aware of that there are benefits going hand in hand with immigration. Provided it´s the right kind of immigration (skilled people willing to accept our norms, not economic refugees without marketable skills).

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7 minutes ago, jeba said:

Provided it´s the right kind of immigration (skilled people willing to accept our norms, not economic refugees without marketable skills).

These people go to Canada which has no problem with dual citizenship. And it's not the language that scares them from Germany: a pretty significant Israeli diaspora lives in Montreal where you need to speak French (in addition to English). 

 

Why would a skilled immigrant "prove loyalty" to Germany if they can go to the country without such ridiculous requirements. 

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