What's the issue with dual nationality?

317 posts in this topic

56 minutes ago, Anna66 said:

 

I disagree.

 

Why do you think this? What is your reason?

Naturalization is also not easy to attain. I would really like to know why you are so against dual nationality.

Haven´t I said that often enough? Loyality is one point (just look at Storydale´s and my own example, or that of McAllister and BoJo, who both had dual citizenship but were high-ranking politicians). That basically newcomers shound´t be able to tip the scale when the locals are in disagreement is another. To give an example relevant to Cyprus, where I live: There was a referendum about reunification of the Turkish occupied part of the island and the areas under the control of the government (in which the Greek Cypriots voted against it). Should strangers like myself  who have no idea of the background and the emotions involved have been able to tip the scale? I don´t think so. Or a fictitious example: had there been a referendum on German reunification - should immigrants have been allowed to tip the scale (and btw I´m not sure about what such a referendum would have resulted in)?

 

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46 minutes ago, jeba said:

Haven´t I said that often enough? Loyality is one point (just look at Storydale´s and my own example, or that of McAllister and BoJo, who both had dual citizenship but were high-ranking politicians). That basically newcomers shound´t be able to tip the scale when the locals are in disagreement is another. To give an example relevant to Cyprus, where I live: There was a referendum about reunification of the Turkish occupied part of the island and the areas under the control of the government (in which the Greek Cypriots voted against it). Should strangers like myself  who have no idea of the background and the emotions involved have been able to tip the scale? I don´t think so. Or a fictitious example: had there been a referendum on German reunification - should immigrants have been allowed to tip the scale (and btw I´m not sure about what such a referendum would have resulted in)?

 

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

Emotions are dangerous. Never make any decision when emotional. In fact, some political parties depend on emotion to steer people. Fear being one of them. Logic is the best way, to be able to take a step back and see the bigger picture. Sadly most people are driven by their emotions, this can be dangerous.

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

There was a referendum about reunification of the Turkish occupied part of the island and the areas under the control of the government (in which the Greek Cypriots voted against it)

I presume to get Cypriot citizenship you have to be in the country 8-10 years like most countries,if that´s the case and someone had been there that long they will know the history of it or at least a basic grasp and if not they´re not exactly integrating so why would they want citizenship in the first place.

2 hours ago, jeba said:

Or a fictitious example: had there been a referendum on German reunification - should immigrants have been allowed to tip the scale

Yes of course.

Those immigrants are now citizens after having spent a few years there.

 

I also notice you´re going off the topic of dual citizenship and now just talking about "immigrants",yes I know dual citizenship holders are immigrants but you´re showing your leanings.

 

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2 hours ago, Keleth said:

I presume to get Cypriot citizenship you have to be in the country 8-10 years like most countries,if that´s the case and someone had been there that long they will know the history of it or at least a basic grasp and if not they´re not exactly integrating so why would they want citizenship in the first place.

It´s 7 years. And I do have a basic grasp but that doesn´t mean I feel about it the same way as Cypriots. I actually hardly care. I also stated repeatedly that I´ll never apply for citizenship because I don´t really care about Cyprus. And I bet that´s how many immigrants feel about their host countries. You move there for a reason other than promoting that country´s interests - most of the time, I bet.

 

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

I also notice you´re going off the topic of dual citizenship and now just talking about "immigrants",yes I know dual citizenship holders are immigrants but you´re showing your leanings.

I was answering the question why I´d like to make it harder to get naturalized. Why are you surprised? After all, I said:

 

On 2.10.2021, 10:06:51, jeba said:

naturalization should be made more difficult.

 

 

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I can assure you not all locals are well versed in their own country's history and politics, yet they're entitled to vote all the same. Therefore it's absurd to bar naturalised citizens under the assumption that they might not know the history and politics, when it's quite obvious many locals don't have a clue, either. 

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My memory may save me short but wasn't it the case a few years ago when Scotland  had its Indy referendum and non-Scots including students from outside the UK and otherwise European citizens  but living in Scotland were allowed to vote but Scots living in England, Wales and Northern Ireland weren't allowed a vote?

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1 hour ago, Fritsen said:

I can assure you not all locals are well versed in their own country's history and politics, yet they're entitled to vote all the same.

As I said before: It´s bad enough that this is correct. It doesn´t mean though you should add to the problem.

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11 hours ago, jeba said:

As I said before: It´s bad enough that this is correct. It doesn´t mean though you should add to the problem.

Fair enough. You're consistent so we know where you stand. At least you're keeping your calm, so you get a couple of points for that. I still think that even though you say naturalization should be made more difficult (I assume like it is in Switzerland), you'd really be happier if only those with blood ties to Germany can be citizens.

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18 hours ago, jeba said:

Should strangers like myself  who have no idea of the background and the emotions involved have been able to tip the scale? I don´t think so.

My children were born in Germany and have spent all their lives here, with their German family and friends, in the German education system, but as they are in their 20s, they didn't experience the divided Germany or reunification, as I did. They have learned about some of these things in school, and they are intelligent and mildly interested - it is not just about "not having a clue" - but the background is more foreign to them than it is to me. Their grandmother just died at the age of 98; she was an extremely bright, intelligent woman with the memory of an elephant and also got to vote in the recent election. When she was my daughter's age, the war had just ended and she was helping clear rubble in Erfurt. Clearly my daughter and her grandmother's experiences of life are very different to mine, or yours, or that of other native German citizens living their entire life in a picturesque little village in the Alps or fishing on the Baltic Sea or travelling the world working for Porsche, or stuck in prison, etc. etc. The people in a country do not have a single, uniform "idea of the background and the emotions involved" in the things that happen there. You are old enough to know that.

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Plenty of people born here are not interested in history and politics.

 

I had to take a test on German history and politics to get citizenship. Did no special preparation. Got 100% correct.

 

May I have two votes? %)

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52 minutes ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

you'd really be happier if only those with blood ties to Germany can be citizens.

If you read his view that it´s bad enough that certain Germans can vote then that´s a no to that question.

He appears to only want a certain type of German to be able to vote although what that type is he doesn´t say.

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51 minutes ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

I still think that even though you say naturalization should be made more difficult (I assume like it is in Switzerland), you'd really be happier if only those with blood ties to Germany can be citizens.

No, I don´t have a problem with those being given citizenship who grew up here and were fully immersed in German culture and education. But not with their keeping another citizenship (except for cases of hardship) for reasons ì´ve already stated ad nauseam.

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21 hours ago, Storydale said:

 

I never said what was okay and what wasn't okay.  I said I wasn't sure that I myself could give an honest vote to Germany because I love my native country more than Germany.  I lived there for 50 years and here for only 10.  I am still here because I married a German.  Otherwise, I would probably have gone back to the US after working in an international school for a few years.  However, the fact remains that the uneducated, German bum has the right to vote in his native country while I do not.  Because I do not, Germany should have the right to question my loyalty if they wanted to if I ever applied for citizenship.  Of course, we could change voting rights to include things like education levels, holding a job, and while we're at it, land ownership and other requirements.  Couldn't we?

 

 

Sure we can all change things, sometimes for the better ans some times for the worse, it all  depends on perceptive

 

I think it was in America, that when Blacks first got the vote that they had to prove a minimum  level of knowledge or education before they were allowed to vote, that was removed after a while.

 

I understand what your saying, that you do not want to vote because you do not feel loyal to Germany, and thats your choice. But its a different things to say that foreigners cannot become German if they meet the requirements or that German bums should not be allowed to vote.

 

I thought removing the requirement for blacks to take a test before they could vote, was done so as not to discriminant against blacks. Now what Jeba, wants to place checks on foreigners and German bums to stop them from voting for things that affect the German way of life, as far as I understand his point of view. Of which I am against.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, yesterday said:

Now what Jeba, wants to place checks on foreigners and German bums to stop them from voting for things that affect the German way of life, as far as I understand his point of view

Correct, that´s how it would be if I was the king of Germany.

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20 minutes ago, jeba said:

Correct, that´s how it would be if I was the king of Germany.

Who would you ban from voting?

Disabled people?

Coloureds?

Muslims?

Foreigners?

Intellectually challenged people?

Anyone who didn`t agree with your views?

 

Sure reminds me of something.

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

No, I don´t have a problem with those being given citizenship who grew up here and were fully immersed in German culture and education. But not with their keeping another citizenship (except for cases of hardship) for reasons ì´ve already stated ad nauseam.

If you're that bothered, why did you leave Germany?

How long have you been away?

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Fietsrad said:

Plenty of people born here are not interested in history and politics.

 

I had to take a test on German history and politics to get citizenship. Did no special preparation. Got 100% correct.

 

May I have two votes? %)

I did an online test to prepare ad afterwards a German friend took one (online for a laugh), he failed.

He could vote at the time, I couldn't.

 

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1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

If you're that bothered, why did you leave Germany?

How long have you been away?

 

 

 

Fair point. In Israel, there is no voting overseas (except for the members of the embassies). If you vote for bullshit, you suffer from its consequences. 

 

That solves the problem of retired people moving to Spain or Greece, but voting to decide how young people in Berlin and Munich should live. 

 

But this is not about dual citizenship. 

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

Who would you ban from voting?

Disabled people?

Coloureds?

Muslims?

Foreigners?

Intellectually challenged people?

Anyone who didn`t agree with your views?

 

Sure reminds me of something.

I won´t dignify that nonsense with answering.

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