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German Einschulung vs. American 1st day of school

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Just now, Krieg said:

 

Because you speak from the comfort of your elitism.  If you were more connected with the reality you would already know the catastrophe that was online education during the lockdown for the middle lower class and specially for the younger kids.   Berlin had to give away a gazillion of tablets and notebooks and this was still not enough.

Because it was done in a hurry.

Just now, Krieg said:

 

And even if you solved the problem of the books, the kids still have to carry around their workbooks, their notes, their stationary, etc, etc.

Why? Mine doesn't.

 

Just now, Krieg said:

And since we are talking about first day of school, I am sure some people would realize the difficulties of having online materials for kids who can't yet read.  Of course you might come here again from your disconnected world and tell us how your kid was writing apps when he was one year old.

They started using tablets when they started reading.

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4 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Why? Mine doesn't.

 

How can I know? it is your kid not mine.  I assume there are lockers in his school, or they keep everything in the classroom.  And your kid does not have do to homework or never study at home from his notes or from physical books.

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Berlin had to give away a gazillion of tablets and notebooks and this was still not enough.

 

And still had to deal with the fact that many low income households in Berlin didn't have internet connections. 

 

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

They started using tablets when they started reading.

 

Seriously?!?! This might be very hard for you to grasp from your position of privilege, however, Berlin has a very large number of low income households and the majority of the children growing up in these households did not have tablets at home when the pandemic started. 

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 

How can I know? it is your kid not mine.  I assume there are lockers in his school, or they keep everything in the classroom.  And your kid does not have do to homework or never study at home from his notes or from physical books.

There are lockers, which I don't understand why isn't that mandatory in German schools.

He does homework mostly on the tablet. He has no physical books from school.

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1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

He does homework mostly on the tablet. He has no physical books from school.

 

That's actually very sad.

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12 minutes ago, engelchen said:

And still had to deal with the fact that many low income households in Berlin didn't have internet connections. 

That's why in Portugal broadband access is mandatory for ISPs, no matter how isolated you are, and there are social tariffs (6€/month) for low income households. Not to mention special ones just for students.

See? Was it so hard? Oh right, it's fucking internet-retarded Germany!

 

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Seriously?!?! This might be very hard for you to grasp from your position of privilege, however, Berlin has a very large number of low income households and the majority of the children growing up in these households did not have tablets at home when the pandemic started. 

This has been discussed last year. The state can easily procure a tablet for 30€ for each kid. I really, really don't understand the argument, as school books are much more expensive than a tablet!

I have no idea how much it is here, but in Portugal a kid can spend easily over 150€ per year in books.

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22 minutes ago, Krieg said:

That's actually very sad.

Why? We can track it, we get feedback from the teacher on the tablet and we can start a discussion with the teacher for each subject, which we do.

Now he uses a Bluetooth keyboard to speed up writing. I love it, since personally I hate, hate, hate manual typing.

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Just to say, my offspring's secondary school (one of the largest in the country) in the UK hit the same problems wrt internet based teaching -- they were relying on children being able to access learning materials from on site and it turns out that especially in households with more than one child, one device just wasn't enough. People worked off mobile phones, but what if mum and/or dad needed their phone for work ?  Also as a regular user of public libraries I can attest to the fact that computers providing internet access at the library seem to be used quite extensively. I  work at one of the more elite universities in the UK, and when I enquired after a student who had  dropped out from online teaching, she told me her internet connection at home wasn't good enough and she had run out of data for that month. So this is not an exclusively German problem. 
Also my child has lockers at school and a lot of electronic books, but by the time she's carried all her work books (the ones for writing in) and the odd bits of paper based learning materials home her rucksack is quite heavy and we invested in a proper one (from an outdoor shop) at some point. I wish they had Schulranzen here, it takes the pressure off looking cool while ruining your back :-S

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3 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

I have no idea how much it is here, but in Portugal a kid can spend easily over 150€ per year in books.

 

 

In "retarded" Germany books are paid by the governments.  Well, to be honest I am not sure if it is only in Berlin or Germany-wide, but the city of Berlin pays for the books, the lunch and the subway pass for all primary school kids.

 

And anyway, what does it have to do with it?  Oh you should be one of those people who thinks that electronic books are for free.

 

3 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Why? We can track it, we get feedback from the teacher on the tablet and we can start a discussion with the teacher for each subject, which we do.

 

Because learning in the first years is not about that.   But I guess you just can't see it.

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The cost of school books in 2017-2018 in Portugal was for an 8th grader 154.5€. That's enough money to buy a tablet every year, plus 12 months of social internet tariff.

Please STOP using the low income excuse, books are more expensive!

The government could easily give away a tablet per year (30€) and make it pratically free!

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Just now, MikeMelga said:

The cost of school books in 2017-2018 in Portugal was for an 8th grader 154.5€. That's enough money to buy a tablet every year, plus 12 months of social internet tariff.

Please STOP using the low income excuse, books are more expensive!

 

Because electronic books are for free.

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Just now, Krieg said:

Because electronic books are for free.

Most of the cost of a school book is the printing and the paper, not the content. Want to see the difference? Compare Kindle and paperback versions of the same book on Amazon, for example.

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Just now, MikeMelga said:

Most of the cost of a school book is the printing and the paper, not the content. Want to see the difference? Compare Kindle and paperback versions of the same book on Amazon, for example.

 

If you actually bought books in Amazon you would know that they cost almost the same.  They are normally around 20% cheaper, sometimes they cost the same.

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3 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

If you actually bought books in Amazon you would know that they cost almost the same.  They are normally around 20% cheaper, sometimes they cost the same.

50% off. And this is Kindle. I'm sure the government could drop these prices hugely by bulk purchase. Not to mention you can reuse them, while with books they wear and tear after a few years.

 

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/B%C3%A4rbel-Barzel-ebook/dp/B096TTN34K/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=mathematik+kindle&qid=1631532000&sr=8-4

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Friedhelm-K%C3%A4pnick-ebook/dp/B088WJC7YV/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=mathematik+grundschule+kindle&qid=1631532044&sr=8-4

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1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

 Not to mention you can reuse them, while with books they wear and tear after a few years.

 


Plenty of primary schools reuse the books for a couple of years and in secondary schools (where you have to buy the books yourself) they have programs to rebuy them from the pupils and recirculate them to kids whose parents want to save some money.  However every two or three years there is a new edition of the book and the one you have becomes obsolete.

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21 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

In "retarded" Germany books are paid by the governments.  Well, to be honest I am not sure if it is only in Berlin or Germany-wide, but the city of Berlin pays for the books, the lunch and the subway pass for all primary school kids.

In Portugal, many cities pay for the tablets.

 

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Because learning in the first years is not about that.   But I guess you just can't see it.

Right, I forgot I'm in the country in which Grundschule is about mastering the German language... and in the meantime my kid is learning not only language and math, but also abstract concepts and social interaction.

Then comes Gymnasium, where Latin is still somehow important... what a fucking joke! You're an immigrant. You should see that the entire German educational system is shaped to put down immigrants!

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Book pricing for library type purchases (which schools are) is different from end user purchasing.  E-Books come with a license agreement and certainly the public hand can not be seen violating this. Unless there is a librarian on here who can offer a concrete insight I don't think you can use Amazon end user prising as an example for anything.

The replacement cycle for (physical) school books often coincides with an update to the material, so e-Books (apart from the licensing) are not a one off purchase either as they need to be updated as well.

Working tablets suitable for school use are more than 150 Euros and they break too. You need a reasonable size, and to submit homework, you ideally need a keyboard. Or you can resort to the "write it on paper and upload a photo" strategy my daughter's school employed to get around this, but then you need (usually paid) software for the teachers to be able to mark the work. Plus security updates etc etc. It's do-able (as the last year has shown), but non trivial. I though MM was working in the computing trade, but I might have gotten that mixed up with someone else, so I am a bit surprised at the 'electronic is easy'  statements -- I'm a (at least part time) system administrator and I can decidedly state that this is not easy.

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10 minutes ago, Marianne013 said:

Working tablets suitable for school use are more than 150 Euros and they break too.

That's weird, somehow my kid has a 10 inch 99€ tablet from 2017, still working. No limitations.

That 99€ tablet bought bulk (by the government), not paying VAT, would end up costing less than half.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Inches-WideView-Quad-Core-Android/dp/B07SQR77DP/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=tablet&qid=1631533561&refinements=p_36%3A428372031&rnid=428358031&s=computers&sr=1-3

 

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You need a reasonable size, and to submit homework, you ideally need a keyboard.

Sure, you can find Bluetooth ones for less than 20€. We have a 29€.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Tecknet-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Wireless-Windows/dp/B07F2L1DGG/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=bluetooth+tastatur+tablet&qid=1631533523&sr=8-8

 

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Or you can resort to the "write it on paper and upload a photo" strategy my daughter's school employed to get around this, but then you need (usually paid) software for the teachers to be able to mark the work. Plus security updates etc etc. It's do-able (as the last year has shown), but non trivial.

Correct, it needs extra software to interact with users, but ifyou split the cost across the whole German educational students, it's pennies per student.

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8 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

You're an immigrant. You should see that the entire German educational system is shaped to put down immigrants!

 

How would you know if you are not part of the German public education system?

 

While I accept that the system is VERY biased, I do not think it is against immigrants.  It is biased against kids from families who do not value education or families who are not willing to put the time to support their kids or that can't actually do it.   It is very difficult for a kid to succeed without the permanent support from the parents, specially the first years.  Kids from immigrant parents from the lower-middle-class are the ones who get it the worst, because mostly they do not receive any support and/or because the parents do not have the skills to support them and/or can't afford to pay for extra classes and/or do not see how that is important.

 

From the way you talk, you seem like a parent who thinks school education is the school's problem.  So it is good you put your kid in a private school, it is probably the best option for him.   Be thankful you can afford it or that your company pay for it.

 

 

1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

but ifyou split the cost across the whole German educational students, it's pennies per student.

 

I hate to break this to you, but Germany is a federal country.

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6 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

How would you know if you are not part of the German public education system?

We already had this discussion multiple times on this forum.

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While I accept that the system is VERY biased, I do not think it is against immigrants.  It is biased against kids from families who do not value education or families who are not willing to put the time to support their kids or that can't actually do it.   It is very difficult for a kid to succeed without the permanent support from the parents, specially the first years.  Kids from immigrant parents from the lower-middle-class are the ones who get it the worst, because mostly they do not receive any support and/or because the parents do not have the skills to support them and/or can't afford to pay for extra classes and/or do not see how that is important.

I actually think it's not on purpose. But they left it unchanged on purpose.

 

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From the way you talk, you seem like a parent who thinks school education is the school's problem.  So it is good you put your kid in a private school, it is probably the best option for him.   Be thankful you can afford it or that your company pay for it.

I come from a country where the public school system gives you constant feedback and helps your kids, especially in young ages. We actually work with him daily, quite a lot, but here they expect for the kid to learn at home, even if the parents can't read! That's fucked up!

 

My decision was simple (but not easy): either my kid got a proper education or we would leave. And my company does not pay for it, so it was not an easy decision.

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