Recognition of divorce

[LimeGreenJelly 22]

So I want to marry my German girlfriend sometime in the not too distant future. But it seems the authorities here don't recognise my divorce!?

 

Heres the background. I was married in New Zealand around 17yrs ago, and divorced in Australia around 10yrs ago. Apparently I need some kind of recognition from New Zealand that I am divorced. This doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

 

Has anyone had to go through this, and have any pointers of what it actually entails?

[murphaph 9,676]

I don't have any advice other than to say if the Standesamt in Berlin makes your life too difficult you could investigate a Danish wedding. They are a lot less stringent in terms of paperwork. 

[LimeGreenJelly 22]

Just now, murphaph said:

I don't have any advice other than to say if the Standesamt in Berlin makes your life too difficult you could investigate a Danish wedding. They are a lot less stringent in terms of paperwork. 

would that be recognised here in Germany?

I only ask, because everything here seems complicated..

[karin_brenig 692]

you need to educate yourself on how to go through the hoops of §107 FamFG

 

here's some pretty detailed test for you:

https://dejure.org/gesetze/FamFG/107.html

[DoubleDTown 388]

Get specifics from Standesamt about what they want.  Did the person understand that while the marriage was in country A the divorce was in country B?  Maybe there is a statute from country A that clarifies how country A treats dissolution of country A marriages in country B?  Perhaps a copy of the country B divorce and a copy of the country A statute might satisfy the Standesamt. 

 

And if you don't like the Standesamt in Berlin, you needn't go as far as Denmark -- just find another town with a pretty location and see if that Standesamt is more helpful. 

[murphaph 9,676]

A Danish marriage is recognised worldwide. The certificate will even be in English and probably German too. You can then just go to the Bürgeramt and change your marital status in the Melderegister and the tax office will change your tax class to IV/IV automatically. If neither of you wish to change your names, you can just leave it at that. If you wish to use a common family name, then you can go to the Standesamt and have the marriage Nachbeurkundet for about €80. The Danish authorities cannot perform the name change part if you don't live there. That can be done as part of the Nachbeurkundung though I believe a name change may be possible in its own right also. The advantage of a Nachbeurkundung is really that it's easier to obtain a duplicate marriage certificate from the local Standesamt than the one in Denmark.

 

I believe you must still do the Anmeldung part in your local Standesamt, even if you wish to be married in another one in Germany. They then give you something like an Überweisung and you go to the other one for the ceremony, but you have to get through the bureaucratic hurdles locally first. I stand to be corrected on that. It's what I heard from a couple that married outside their town.

[LimeGreenJelly 22]

1 minute ago, murphaph said:

A Danish marriage is recognised worldwide. The certificate will even be in English and probably German too. You can then just go to the Bürgeramt and change your marital status in the Melderegister and the tax office will change your tax class to IV/IV automatically. If neither of you wish to change your names, you can just leave it at that. If you wish to use a common family name, then you can go to the Standesamt and have the marriage Nachbeurkundet for about €80. The Danish authorities cannot perform the name change part if you don't live there. That can be done as part of the Nachbeurkundung though I believe a name change may be possible in its own right also. The advantage of a Nachbeurkundung is really that it's easier to obtain a duplicate marriage certificate from the local Standesamt than the one in Denmark.

 

I believe you must still do the Anmeldung part in your local Standesamt, even if you wish to be married in another one in Germany. They then give you something like an Überweisung and you go to the other one for the ceremony, but you have to get through the bureaucratic hurdles locally first. I stand to be corrected on that. It's what I heard from a couple that married outside their town.

 

wow, thanks.

That seems much easier than trying to get some kind of proof from New Zealand.

I havn't actually lived there for almost 25yrs now

[tor 16,897]

Use the search function for  \My Big Fat Danish Wedding' :))

[LimeGreenJelly 22]

I have another question while I’m at it.

thus might seem strange, but I live an unconventional life.

 

I live in Berlin, my fiancé lives in Hamburg. I don’t plan on moving to HH in the near future, and she has a good job there and won’t be moving here.

 

would this cause problems?

 

i have my Aufenthaltstitel via a family reunion visa through my German daughter. So there are no visa benefits for me to marry. I’m not sure we’ll even stay here once travel restrictions are eased.

 

We’ve been in a relationship now for 2 yrs, and I have my life all sorted, as does she.

 

And although I’m a little reluctant to remarry, I also see the benefits of a lifelong friend and partner.

[murphaph 9,676]

The Standesamt might be a little sceptical, but maybe not if as you say there are no visa benefits to you from the marriage. The Danish authorities ask for perhaps a dozen photos going back a few years to show you are a genuine couple. I guess the Standesamt could be satisfied that way too. 

[Auntie Helen 485]

I don’t think Danish weddings work in Germany now. When I was researching for our wedding we planned for Denmark but then saw that it would cause problems in DE. We ended up managing to jump through the hoops and were married here in NRW two weeks ago:

 

https://www.auntiehelen.co.uk/reader-i-married-him/

[murphaph 9,676]

What do you mean "don't work in Germany"?

[Santitas 587]

2 hours ago, LimeGreenJelly said:

And although I’m a little reluctant to remarry, I also see the benefits of a lifelong friend and partner.

Why get married then? Just move in together?

especially since it’s so complicated 

[Auntie Helen 485]

8 minutes ago, murphaph said:

What do you mean "don't work in Germany"?

Sorry, badly written.

 

I mean, Germany doesn’t automatically recognise them now.

 

of course I can’t find the website where I read that, I will keep looking…

[murphaph 9,676]

I don't believe that's correct. The top result on this page is from the German government. It would be almost inconceivable to me that a marriage in another EU state would not be recognised by Germany. 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=anerkennung+d%C3%A4nische+ehe+in+deutschland&client=ms-android-motorola-rev2&sxsrf=AOaemvKKhg_V6WeBmpAAKaY1tzESmixCPQ%3A1631120656559&ei=EO04YeixIcuBkwXCv6TIAw&oq=anerkennung+danische&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIECAAQDTIGCAAQDRAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjoECAAQRzoKCAAQgAQQhwIQFDoFCAAQywE6BQgAEJECOgUIABCABDoFCCEQoAFQww9Y-SVgpDloAHABeACAAfIBiAHRCpIBBTAuOC4xmAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

[Auntie Helen 485]

Yes, I couldn’t find it again. Weird. But I am sure I read something about it as it made us change our plans and consider Gibraltar, then Gretna Green, before our local Standesamt decided to be friendly and accept my UK divorce certificate. But I can’t find it now and all the Danish wedding sites are up and running so it must be OK.

[catjones 1,658]

if you can't prove you're divorced how will the germans prove it?  if someone asks if you're divorced, just say "no, never married", then get married.

[murphaph 9,676]

10 hours ago, Auntie Helen said:

Yes, I couldn’t find it again. Weird. But I am sure I read something about it as it made us change our plans and consider Gibraltar, then Gretna Green, before our local Standesamt decided to be friendly and accept my UK divorce certificate. But I can’t find it now and all the Danish wedding sites are up and running so it must be OK.

Perhaps the site you saw got confused about the Namenserklärung part or something (that must be done in Germany at the local Standesamt but is a formality. The actual marriage must be recognised as long as it was legally conducted according to the laws of Denmark. In fact Germany and Denmark have an agreement about mutual recognition of marriage certificates stretching back to 1936). And since 2019 the Standesamt can't even ask for an apostille. As long as the certificate is in German also, which it is, it must be accepted as is by German public bodies :-)

[murphaph 9,676]

4 hours ago, catjones said:

if you can't prove you're divorced how will the germans prove it?  if someone asks if you're divorced, just say "no, never married", then get married.

Yeah that's really not a good idea. The marriage would not be legal if lies were told. That could have some very serious consequences down the line should it ever come out. The tax advantages alone could run to tens hundreds of thousands. Even the other spouse could reveal the truth to the Finanzamt in a fit of rage or madness or whatever.

[RenegadeFurther 2,393]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Perhaps the site you saw got confused about the Namenserklärung part or something (that must be done in Germany at the local Standesamt but is a formality. The actual marriage must be recognised as long as it was legally conducted according to the laws of Denmark. In fact Germany and Denmark have an agreement about mutual recognition of marriage certificates stretching back to 1936). And since 2019 the Standesamt can't even ask for an apostille. As long as the certificate is in German also, which it is, it must be accepted as is by German public bodies :-)

 

Germany is under no obligation to accept a marriage certificate from Denmark. The Standesamt is also aware that people avoid German bureaucracy by getting married in Denmark.

 

Each department (Finanzamt, rentenversicherung), can send the marriage certificate back to the Standesamt to verify and the Standesamt do not need to accept it.

 

It took me 9 months to get the papers ready to get married in Germany.

 

1) The divorce had to be recognized by the Oberlandesgericht (took 5 months).

2) I also needed to apply for an exemption for certificate of no impediment also at the Oberlandesgericht (UK do not give them to people living abroad) (another 4 months).