Verwahrentgelt for existing bank users, is it a trick?

44 posts in this topic

On 10/07/2021, 14:43:41, GaryC said:

Perhaps the judgement has retrospective affect in relation to previous changes that happened before my time? 

 

Yes, people could get back all bank account fees for the last 3 years, since for those the statute of limitation hasn't passed yet, i.e. if you ask for them back until 31. December 2021, you can back all the banks fees back to 1. January 2018: https://www-verbraucherzentrale-de.translate.goog/aktuelle-meldungen/geld-versicherungen/unzulaessige-vertragsaenderungen-so-koennen-sie-bankgebuehren-zurueckfordern-60926?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=ajax,nv,elem

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4 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

Yes, people could get back all bank account fees for the last 3 years

Be aware though that this may mean risking that your bank will stop doing business with you. I can´t remember which bank has done it already, but there was at least one who told customers that if they insist on their right they will close their account.

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Dispicable and short-sighted. If we all take out the money in cash and stick it in a sock under the bed there will be a bit of a problem. Idiots.

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Does anyone know if the comdirect account fee will apply to the Depot Verrechnungskonto? 

I don't bank with comdirect per se but I have an ETF sparplan in my comdirect depot which has by necessity a Verrechnungskonto which tends to have no more than a few cents in it at any time.

If they start charging me a fiver a month on that I'll close the whole lot and move it to a  DKB depot, though I prefer the comdirect interface.

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Does anyone know if the comdirect account fee will apply to the Depot Verrechnungskonto? 

I don't bank with comdirect per se but I have an ETF sparplan in my comdirect depot which has by necessity a Verrechnungskonto which tends to have no more than a few cents in it at any time.

If they start charging me a fiver a month on that I'll close the whole lot and move it to a  DKB depot, though I prefer the comdirect interface.

 

This also interests me, as my children Depots are with Comdirect.

 

I also received a letter from Sparda-Bank München and they're increasing their Kontogebühr to €3,90/month and implementing a negative interest rate for Kontos with over €100,000 in them. I don't really can't/want to change banks as my mortgage is with them, but on the other hand I'll get more than those few €€ back when I refinance part of the mortgage in a few weeks with lower interest rates.  People without mortgages and who don't know or trust themselves to invest their parked money are really being hammered.

 

.

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Thought I would login and see what the charges are (going to be) and was greeted with the message that they are implementing them from 1 November.  The notification, which I have not copied is spun like a politician spins everything they say and the message when you get to it is not a lot better:

 

"Wie bereits angekündigt, benötigen wir Ihre Unterstützung: Der Bundesgerichtshof hat entschieden, dass die bisher in der Kreditwirtschaft gängige Rechtspraxis, Änderungen von Bedingungen und Preisen ohne aktive Kundenzustimmung vorzunehmen, nicht zulässig ist. Aus diesem Grund kann ein Teil der mit Ihnen getroffenen Vereinbarungen unwirksam sein.

Wir möchten unsere bisherige vertrauensvolle Geschäftsbeziehung für Sie und uns rechtssicher fortsetzen. Deshalb bitten wir Sie bis 31.10.2021 um Ihre aktive Zustimmung zu den neuen allgemeinen und produktbezogenen Geschäftsbedingungen sowie zum neuen Preis- und Leistungsverzeichnis. Diese gelten ab 01.11.2021.

Die konkreten Änderungen finden Sie in den neuen Fassungen der allgemeinen und produktbezogenen Geschäftsbedingungen und des Preis- und Leistungsverzeichnisses, die Sie unten auf dieser Seite in PDF-Form abrufen können."

Far be it from me to suggest sour grapes on their part but to understand what the new T&Cs are you need to read 48 pages, without a hint of what has changed where.  I have never seen such non-customer-friendly communication from an organisation when making changes to T&Cs.  Most will helpfully point out which paragraphs have changed but this bank, and probably the rest of them too, are clearly hoping that people give their consent without really knowing what they are consenting too.  Sharp practice in my view and likely also to be challenged on grounds of an unsafe or unlawful contract but not for me to spend my pennies on.

 

Then there is the 14 page document setting out the new charges.  These are going to take a while to digest, not least because the package I got when opening the account was a pre-paid credit card and Tagesgeld-plus.  The former is apparently (or was back in May) going to be "free" - we'll see if that is still the case and not 1,90€ pm - and I have no idea about Tagesgeld-plus.  Never asked for it, never used it but how would one get rid of it if the cost becomes 1,90€pm as well, on top of the potential for 4,90€ pm on the Giro Konto. 

 

I originally thought it would be worth riding the storm until my German pension kicks in, when we will pass the 700€ pm deposits as having the various cards the package offers would be useful when travelling in Germany and Euroland more widely but I am beginning to wonder whether it's all too much agro now that we have the € accounts in the UK into which the funds could be paid.  Changing the account for the existing deposits into the the account is also going to be a pain, so have a couple of weeks to figure out which pain will be the lesser...

 

Will feedback a little more if and when I get my head round the documents...

 

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SpardaBank lost one customer already. If you refuse to agree to retroactive charges they will hit you over the head with an even higher future rate. Utterly primitive. And very short sighted. What sort of relationship do they imagine they are going to have with their customers with those tactics? My husband will likely be out soon too. Not only will the money be draining out of the bank, it will be draining out of the country.

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I doubt that will even scratch the surface of the German banks.  They seem to be arrogant and impervious to customer service on the basis that 99% of the population will just suck it up.

 

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If I change it will be to my UK Starling Bank as that has a € account and £ account, with transfers between the two at 0.4% fee.  Gives full flexibility about when to move between currencies within the same bank.  To be honest, had this bank existed when we opened the comdirect account in preparation of receiving out German pensions we would have gone with them from the start and avoided all of the agro involved in opening an account in another country!

 

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7 minutes ago, Janx Spirit said:

Anyone know of a good bank to change to?

I'm still pretty happy with DKB, charges wise.

 

They did start charging a fee on the Vermieterpaket accounts. I'll probably accept that as the overall service is pretty good there. There are still no fees on our day to day banking however.

 

Very good for families too as you can have several sub accounts including joint accounts with different people and as long as one of your accounts has so called "active status" (a certain amount going in every month) then all your other accounts have it too and no charges apply to them either.

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

 

Comdirect will introduce charges of 4.90€ per month, starting 1. November 2021, if you don't have 700€ entering every month: https://www-t--online-de.translate.goog/finanzen/news/unternehmen-verbraucher/id_90641546/comdirect-schafft-kostenloses-girokonto-jetzt-doch-ab.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=ajax,nv,elem

 

--> time to do two standard orders (Daueraufträge), one for 700€ from your €-Starling account into the Comdirect account, and another a few days later back from Comdirect to Starling.

Didn't notice this before posting my earlier comment but yes, that's the way to bridge the gap.

 

To note: Dauerauftrag = standing order...

 

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2 hours ago, GaryC said:

To note: Dauerauftrag = standing order...

I actually know that. 

But that's what you get after a long day of work, when I go on TT to wind down and post a reply at 1am ;-)

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I also keep getting these unpleasant messages from Comdirect. The way the word it read to me a bit like: "you should accept our new conditions, because the court says that otherwise we can't implement them". Sorry folks, but don't make your problem mine.

I have more than 700eur/m coming in, so if I get it right they won't charge me. Still annoying.

 

Question: say I do NOT accept their new condition. What happens next? Of course they could close my account (and depot), but where will they throw what is in the account (and in the depot) ??? My guess is they just keep sending threat/reminder for ever, until we customers accept just to free us from the hassle.

 

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5 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

I have more than 700eur/m coming in, so if I get it right they won't charge me. Still annoying.

 

 

That's not the only change, there is as well the negative interest, some banks put the limit in 100k but others have it in 50k.  AFAIK.

 

They can close your account and they keep your money until you tell them where to sent it.

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2 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Question: say I do NOT accept their new condition. What happens next? Of course they could close my account (and depot), but where will they throw what is in the account (and in the depot) ??? 

 

Other banks have, when the client didn't agree to the new conditions, closed the account and transferred the money to the court: 

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I got a stinky nag email this morning, so it looks as though they are starting a process of attrition.  It says, " nur so können wir unser gemeinsames Vertragsverhältnis auf einer rechtssicheren Grundlage fortführen.", whatever that is supposed to imply.  Elsewhere I recall reading something about having to develop a new relationship if one doesn't agree but no indication of whether that would actually be a relationship or non-relationship...

 

I can pass the 700€/m limit quite easily until the other income source kicks in but I wrote to them yesterday asking for confirmation that the pre-paid credit card remains free (they confirmed that in May) and what happens with the Tagesgeld-PLUS, which I did not ask for (it was part of the package), have never used and will never use.  Are they about to start charging 1,90 pm?  If so, can I close that part of the package?

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On the other hand, as brutal as it is, conditions change all the time. Employers have their salaries changed. Stuff in the market get more expensive. People change job, friends, spouse, whatever. 

Banks are now saying: we gave you so-and-so conditions. But actually now we want to change them.

 

Of course I hate them. But I don't think they are completely out of the world...

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