Verwahrentgelt for existing bank users, is it a trick?

44 posts in this topic

Hi, some banks are applying a custody fee (-0,5%) to current accounts (WTF??) for new and exiting customers. I received a pre-signed contract to agree this fee. Usually when a bank changes the conditions, they just inform you in advance. However this time they require me to sign a new contract. Ofc, they don't clarify what if I don't accept (even after asking them, just that they are very "generous" and "good guys"). Honestly, sounds like a "trick" to cheat customers to accept, otherwise they would unilaterally apply the conditions.

Do you have more info about?

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It´s a consequence of negative interest rates. Banks are merely starting to pass on what they have to pay to the ECB. It´s a strong argument against a cashless society.

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The Postbank lost litigation this year on the question of changes to T&C.  In simple terms the judgement says the bank cannot make one-sided changes to the contract, i.e. inform you of a change from such and such date (i.e. obtaining your passive agreement), rather they need your active agreement to change those conditions, i.e. you need to sign something agreeing to the change.  I know the banks are digesting what the judgement means for the wider banking community but it looks as though your bank may be starting down a new path.

 

What happens if you decline their kind offer?  Not sure.  Can they terminate your account because you refuse to accept a change of T&C?  That sounds like coercion or putting them back in the pre Postbank environment.  Perhaps there is something tucked away in the existing T&C that alludes to what happens in that circumstance.

 

Also, I thought the fee was supposed to apply only where the balance on the account exceeds 50,000€ but perhaps that is a subtly different issue?

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5 hours ago, GaryC said:

What happens if you decline their kind offer?  Not sure.  Can they terminate your account because you refuse to accept a change of T&C? 

 

Yes, a bank can terminate your account at any time, just like you as the customer can terminate the account.

They do not need to give a reason.

 

For example, comdirect has lately been terminating accounts en masse, all without giving a reason: https://www.modern-banking.de/ebg_com.php

Just like their mother company Commerzbank: https://www.modern-banking.de/ebg_cob.php

If you want to read reviews of other banks, click on the "Anbieter-Filter anzeigen" at the top:

60ddcbb4abd77_2021-07-0116_04_54-Erfahru

 

Trustpilot is also a good source for reviews: https://de.trustpilot.com/

 

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25 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

For example, comdirect has lately been terminating accounts en masse, all without giving a reason

WOW!  My wife and I are with them and thought we are out of the woods for now, pending the outcome of their review of the post-Postbank world.  And from next year when I draw my DRV pension, we will be over the requisite 700€ per month deposits anyway.  Has anyone actually fathomed why so many long-term customers are being thrown on the metaphorical scrap heap?  Reading those posts it seems completely arbitrary.

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Well, we will see then. The bank I meant is actually comdirect. I think I will transfer the money to other bank in EuroZone where the fee is not applicable (yet). I guess in Germany just DKV/Tomorrow are the only banks without fees and without minimum monthly transfers (so far). Not even N26.

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On 02/07/2021, 00:14:35, soniamar said:

DKV/Tomorrow are the only banks without fees

 

No. e.g. APO-Bank and Santander also don´t charge transaction or "maintenance"-fees.

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19 hours ago, jeba said:

No. e.g. APO-Bank and Santander also don´t charge transaction or "maintenance"-fees.

Is it true for non Health professionals?

I found out another bank without fees and minimum monthly transfers: Klarna Bank.

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1 hour ago, soniamar said:

Is it true for non Health professionals?

I found out another bank without fees and minimum monthly transfers: Klarna Bank.

 

I'm not a health professional and I opened an account with Santander about 8 months ago.  They offer two types of free accounts.  One is basic free and the other which is what I have is free if you have at least 1200 per month going in and also offers a bonus for different things up to 6€ a month.

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6 hours ago, soniamar said:

Is it true for non Health professionals?

I´m not sure whether they´ll accept non-health professionals as customers.

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On 01/07/2021, 10:00:14, GaryC said:

I thought the fee was supposed to apply only where the balance on the account exceeds 50,000€

 

You say "only", but €50k isn't much these days.

 

Previously it was €250k, then €100k. What's next, €25k?

 

That's not even a year's average salary in Germany. Anyone who takes their savings seriously will be impacted.

 

It's not worth changing banks because those that don't charge Strafzinsen will start doing so soon, they have to.

 

The banks can't be blamed, but the central bank very much can be. Unfortunately I think they'll continue tightening the screw as far as possible, until it impacts voting behaviour, which is still a long way off.

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On 7/1/2021, 6:43:13, jeba said:

It´s a consequence of negative interest rates. Banks are merely starting to pass on what they have to pay to the ECB. It´s a strong argument against a cashless society.

It's zero argument against a cashless society. 

 

The ECB wants you to spend money because there is not enough in the system. If you  hold it in cash instead, the ECB will have no choice but devalue it by printing (inflation). 

 

If you hold the money in BitCoin/Gold/whatever, then it will be confiscated from you. 

 

The state controls the money flow, there is no way to get around it except dismantling the state and turning it into Somalia. 

Executive_Order_6102.jpg.4bd59588e0fa614

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Just had a look at my latest comdirect Finanzreport and they make customers aware of where they are going (for now at least) in terms of the Postbank judgement:

 

Hinweis: Mit Urteil vom 27. April 2021 (XI ZR 26/20) hat der Bundesgerichtshof die Klauseln zum Vertragsänderungsmechanismus in Nr. 1 Abs. 2 und Nr. 12 Abs. 5 AGB-Banken bei Verträgen mit Verbrauchern für unzulässig bewertet. Die Bank wird sich auf die Klauseln nicht mehr berufen. Bei der Entgeltabrechnung konnte das Urteil noch nicht berücksichtigt werden.

 

What happens next is anyone's guess but for now it seems the charges are on hold...

 

Also, as they did not introduce the in May 2021, I am not sure to what the final sentence is referring? Perhaps the judgement has retrospective affect in relation to previous changes that happened before my time? 

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My bank #1 sent me an email asking me to accept their new conditions and gave me until October to do it.  And a link to a PDF with 70 or 80 pages with the new conditions.  Great.

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31 minutes ago, Krieg said:

My bank #1 sent me an email asking me to accept their new conditions and gave me until October to do it.  And a link to a PDF with 70 or 80 pages with the new conditions.  Great.

That's what I expect to receive at some point, with the kind invitation to take my business elsewhere if I choose not to sign up to the new T&C.  Has your bank not told you in summary form what the changes are?  That generally happens in the UK these days from a customer service/transparency perspective...

 

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31 minutes ago, GaryC said:

Has your bank not told you in summary form what the changes are?

 

 

Nope.  Just the extremely long PDF.  I assume they want people to give up and not read the damn thing.   Because it is not only reading it, it is finding the differences.  Probably somewhere in the Internet someone did the job already.

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7 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Nope.  Just the extremely long PDF.  I assume they want people to give up and not read the damn thing.   Because it is not only reading it, it is finding the differences.  Probably somewhere in the Internet someone did the job already.

You're probably right. 

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On 7/3/2021, 7:19:02, Editor Bob said:

You say "only", but €50k isn't much these days. Previously it was €250k, then €100k. What's next, €25k?

 

It's not worth changing banks because those that don't charge Strafzinsen will start doing so soon, they have to.

 

There's a simple life hack to that: open a second account (or as many as needed). In addition, this encourages germans to invest in real assets instead of stupidly parking all their savings in a Sparkonto, which is overall a good thing.

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On 10/07/2021, 14:43:41, GaryC said:

Just had a look at my latest comdirect Finanzreport and they make customers aware of where they are going (for now at least) in terms of the Postbank judgement:

 

Hinweis: Mit Urteil vom 27. April 2021 (XI ZR 26/20) hat der Bundesgerichtshof die Klauseln zum Vertragsänderungsmechanismus in Nr. 1 Abs. 2 und Nr. 12 Abs. 5 AGB-Banken bei Verträgen mit Verbrauchern für unzulässig bewertet. Die Bank wird sich auf die Klauseln nicht mehr berufen. Bei der Entgeltabrechnung konnte das Urteil noch nicht berücksichtigt werden.

 

What happens next is anyone's guess but for now it seems the charges are on hold...

 

Comdirect will introduce charges of 4.90€ per month, starting 1. November 2021, if you don't have 700€ entering every month: https://www-t--online-de.translate.goog/finanzen/news/unternehmen-verbraucher/id_90641546/comdirect-schafft-kostenloses-girokonto-jetzt-doch-ab.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=ajax,nv,elem

 

--> time to do two standard orders (Daueraufträge), one for 700€ from your €-Starling account into the Comdirect account, and another a few days later back from Comdirect to Starling.

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