Euro 2020 and 2021

368 posts in this topic

So Whatabouism is pretty strong, it can be applied to sports as well.

 

- The English fans violently attacked the Italian fans after the game.

- Yes, but what about the Dutch?

 

Weak sauce.

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24 minutes ago, Krieg said:

So Whatabouism is pretty strong, it can be applied to sports as well.

 

- The English fans violently attacked the Italian fans after the game.

- Yes, but what about the Dutch?

 

Weak sauce.

Yer but that is bollocks because that´s not what I`m doing.

I´m saying it is not just an English problem which some on this thread seem to believe it is.

Does England have a problem ?

Yes most definitely.

Are they the only ones with a problem ?

Definitely not.

Do I think it´s a football problem ?

Nope it´s a social problem.

How often do we hear of drunken fighting in many towns ?

Lots of times.

Was it racism in football that got Saka,Rashford and Sancho abused ?

No it was racism in Britain that is the cause (yes I´m including Scotland and Wales).

The media and politicians immediately see the opportunity to jump on it being an English football problem so we can deflect from the real problems and people sit their in their little cocoons and think "well its an English football problem so if we punish them it´ll all get better".

 

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Thems testeronati's wot needz a gud war, innit?

 

Yobs and thugs.

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8 hours ago, optimista said:

Thems testeronati's wot needz a gud war, innit?

 

Yobs and thugs.

This is exactly right.

It is really nothing to do with football but that football is merely a gathering place for these people to gather in large numbers.

It´s a societal problem and a world problem.

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Here's one for the gallery, Keleth!

A couple of years ago here! Football boss gets a bit annoyed!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2018/mar/12/paok-salonkia-owner-ivan-savvidis-invades-pitch-with-a-gun-video

Professional hooligan😒

Again, for the record , I am not some flag-waving my-country-is-the-best-in-the-world-type ( though there are many things I love ). I detest all yobbery and there will be more when English clubs play in European competitions this autumn. There will be yobs looking for sick revenge bla bla. Nach dem Motto, " we are tougher than the English." Betcha 100 per cent.

Morons are international.

 

If I hear the word whataboutism one more time, I might get furious , though!😖😂

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17 hours ago, Keleth said:

And I have no problem with that.But I have a problem with people who seem to believe it is just an English problem.

 

We have politicians who fuck up the country's reputation a damn sight more than football fans do.

Go back to the 70s and 80s when hooliganism was at its peak and all that suffered was English footballs reputation abroad but right now they are just a minor part of the countrys reputation being fucked over.

We have populist politicians and media constantly using dogwhistle speech and then we wonder why this shit happens and just like you did basically worry about the end result of this rather than worry about the cause.

 

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/sports/news/no-fair-play-english-europe-133816979.html

 

How several papers across Europe saw the fans' behaviour and how that effects the perception of our country. 

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5 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/sports/news/no-fair-play-english-europe-133816979.html

 

How several papers across Europe saw the fans' behaviour and how that effects the perception of our country. 

The German journalist is probably the most insightful as he basically says much of it is to do with the govts dogwhistling and attitude.

I do find it hard to be lectured on racism by an Italian journalist as Italian football has probably the biggest problem with racism in W(S) Europe.

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The bad behavior by football fans is tolerated.   I have often wondered about the extra security and policing costs for an Hertha BSC game in Berlin.

 

When Alba Berlin (basketball) plays in an arena just 5 minutes away from our place, we don't even realize there is a game.   No fights, and the loud, drunken a$$hole count on public transport is not elevated.  

 

When the cops start busting heads and assessing fines for disturbing the peace that are substantial, the bad behavior will mostly go away.  

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This discussion reminds me when the topic is  "what an atrocity the nazi did with the jews" and you see people (usually the modern nazi fan) answering stuff like :

"ok and the gulag in soviet union?" 

"ok and the redskins massacres in USA?" 

"ok and massacres during colonialism?" 

 

Und so weiter, und so weiter 

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34 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-57829412

 

This is the BBC's summary of what happened in and around Wembley on Sunday. Doesn't paint a good picture. Looks like the security was very poor. Could even have turned into a tragedy.  

Also watched it. How can it all have been so badly organised? The country has plenty of experience with dealing with the masses at sports events. Just unbelievable.

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if England get a behind-closed-doors ban for some matches. 

 

This has just happened to Hungary after their fans' homophobic chanting at this very same tournament:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/hungary-uefa-germany-allianz-arena-portugal-b1881492.html

 

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28 minutes ago, Frantic said:

This discussion reminds me when the topic is  "what an atrocity the nazi did with the jews" and you see people (usually the modern nazi fan) answering stuff like :

"ok and the gulag in soviet union?" 

"ok and the redskins massacres in USA?" 

"ok and massacres during colonialism?" 

 

Und so weiter, und so weiter 

It's the fall back answer. I've never been really really sure if people do that to try to minimise how bad it looks or to draw attention away or just out of embarrassment (with nazis it's the first two). 

Totally idiotic, all that is shit and they stay shit even if other shit things have happened and they stay shit if shittier things happen. 

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19 minutes ago, john g. said:

Also watched it. How can it all have been so badly organised? The country has plenty of experience with dealing with the masses at sports events. Just unbelievable.

I really wouldn't be surprised if England get a behind-closed-doors ban for some matches. 

This has just happened to Hungary after their fans' homophobic chanting:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/hungary-uefa-germany-allianz-arena-portugal-b1881492.html

 

Downright embarrassing that this kind of shit could happen. 

 

We have the thing in home turf and these prats embarrass us with TV cameras there to catch it all. 

 

It's a shame we can't hand out stadium and pub/bar bans. 

Life would be fun for them if you had to have a licence to buy alcohol and that was taken away from them. 

They'd have to complete with the 14 year olds to get people to buy them a few cans from the shop. 

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34 minutes ago, Frantic said:

This discussion reminds me when the topic is  "what an atrocity the nazi did with the jews" and you see people (usually the modern nazi fan) answering stuff like :

"ok and the gulag in soviet union?" 

"ok and the redskins massacres in USA?" 

"ok and massacres during colonialism?" 

 

Und so weiter, und so weiter 

 

When you've got nothing, your only fallback is whataboutism.

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I'm hoping to hear about arrests eg of those kicking an Italian fan etc. And some serious gaol time. No social workers and no " poor men, have had  a hard life etc."

No one should have the right to kick a total stranger in the head unprovoked. No one.

 

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1 hour ago, MUinEU said:

It's a shame we can't hand out stadium and pub/bar bans

Being banned from the grounds was their way to try and combat hooliganism when it was at its peak.

It never worked though because most of the hooligans weren´t really that interested in the football anyway and it was really just a place to meet like minded people and they would end up just pushing the trouble into the towns etc.

As for pub bans that´s not going to work without ID cards which the UK doesn´t have.

 

They can´t stop drunken yobs in the city centres every weekend so although you may stop a few of them you´re not going to stop it when its organised.

Russia for example has a problem with hooliganism and their police and punishment is draconian compared to the UK and they can´t even stop it.

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