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non-stop helicopter and other flights over central munich

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Sadly, due to heavy traffic and urgent care, more hospitals use paramedics/ medical helicopters to transport patients.

One of the problem with high density living. Also means that your chance of survival is increased after a Road Traffic  Incident, or mountain  accident.

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1 hour ago, Simon Pic said:

So here's one by ADAC which flew over us some 15 minutes ago (photo attached,

more details can be found at the link).

 

It's flying out of Landshut and landing at the Harlaching Klinik.

 

Seems to be going "out of their way" to fly close and above the Isar and closer to the more

populated neighborhoods, even ending up making a small circle above Perlacher Forst

to land to the destination.

 

I don't get why, but then again what do I know about flying. :wacko:

 

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-hyal/#27f89381

ft.png.7b3f712e8ea1cbb70a4ab9042afbdc71.

8 hours ago, Simon Pic said:

It seems from the descriptions that some of the airspace classes are defined in relation to

proximity to airports etc. It is not clear to me what applies to dense, populated urban areas.

 

1000ft is the normal lower limit for flights over urban areas, 500ft for countryside, both in the EU, but also in the USA and Australia. But this does not apply to Police or rescue helicopter flights, which can effectively fly at any height required.

 

It seems that it is common that a rescue helicopter will generally fly using pre-programmed GPS to a location near enough to the hospital or whatever, to a location where the pilot can then actually see the pad or be in the vicinity of it. If it's not visible then the flight must go elsewhere. I understand that these combined flight paths and the separate elements that compose them must normally be pre-approved by local air traffic control, even when beneath controlled airspace.

 

I suspect this flight used GPS to get to Munich, then for visual flight purposes simply continued down the Isar (a nice easy thing to see) and then looped over to the Klinik, as their base is on the southwest corner of that - so they don't need to fly directly over the Klinik itself, and can come in low over Perlacher Forst, just prior to landing. I expect this is a standard, approved flightpath for them - it looks pretty efficient to me, but then I'm not affected by the noise. Formerly living in Perth, Western Australia we had a big lake very near. In bushfire season, many helicopters would refill there, including a massive skycrane (now that is a noisy helicopter), all genuinely at treetop level - windows shaking etc!

 

Apparently in the USA, rescue flights over urban areas are usually at 250-500ft with 200ft being the specified lowest flight level, except when landing and taking off, naturally - depending sometimes on the height of the landing pad of course. 

https://www.airmedandrescue.com/latest/long-read/instrument-flight-rules-operations-hems

 

Naturally they must get lower than that as they come in to land. I don't think any helicopter pilot would want to fly to a hospital or anywhere else, and then routinely descend vertically very far when they could avoid it - helicopters are safer when going forward, both mechanically and for purposes of seeing where they are going.

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18 minutes ago, kaju said:

In bushfire season, many helicopters would refill there, including a massive skycrane (now that is a noisy helicopter), all genuinely at treetop level - windows shaking etc!

 

Right! Bushfires were the only rare and odd occassions in the past where I had even come close to noticing helicopters flying above a city (not in Germany though).

 

But to have this as routine rather than the exception across such a densely populated area... Especially since this apparently keeps only getting worse (more frequent) during the last few years - enough to be noticeable to the point of being in constant agitation whenever we hear any sort of engine at this point. It is nerve-wracking. When they are crossing above us, it sounds like we're about to be bombarded.

 

I've also read that the average altitude for helicopters is 10,000 ft, and that indeed the higher altitude puts more pressure on the helicopter. Still, between 10,000 and 2,000 one would think there's enough flexibility to avoid disturbing the residents on a constant basis. I've noticed that flights above 3200 ft or so are almost unnoticeable.

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When I read the title I thought this was offering a tourist ride. 

I was glad it was a non stop ride, I wouldn't want the helicopter to stop half way through. 

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Wow, that shows it is still flying right over where I used to live in Bogenhausen over a decade ago. Directly above my roof. Kid you not. It would have driven me mad if I were still there. My erstwhile neighbours from Hell will be enjoying it. :ph34r: And yes, they fly low. Dunno about the rules but I know where they were from my garden and I am sure there was a slight discrepancy with what is in the book and what actually happens. Cough.

 

Awful. Very weird that no-one is complaining.

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17 hours ago, Simon Pic said:

... enough to be noticeable to the point of being in constant agitation whenever we hear any sort of engine...

 

I hear ya. Nerve shattering. I would consider moving. Fighting it is not going to work.

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I heard a helicopter at 12:45 around Theresienwiese and another one around 14:00. 

 

Nothing compared though when I heard a Concorde flying over once in Manchester in landing modus. I stood right up in bed as I thought it would crash directly in my Halls of Residence (13 floors),

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8 hours ago, optimista said:

Awful. Very weird that no-one is complaining.

 

Quite. There's practically no information whatsoever that I know of, other than this thread. Neighbours seem to be almost oblivious to it (or rather tolerating and suffering in silence, as usual). Which is rather ironic when being among people that regularly complain to each other about the noise of toilets flushing after 22:00.. :mellow:

 

That's kind of the issue too, plus the lack of authoritative information on what is going on and what to expect next. If a problem is not being identified and recognized, then there's no problem to speak of...and a few years later people have perhaps already "adjusted" to it. Apparently this isn't a severe degradation of the quality of life for the affected residents (and again, I stress that this started at least one year before covid). I really wonder if any local authority is even aware that this is actually a problem at all.

 

Many of those flights are routinely crossing right above the rather ultra-rich parts of Mauerkircherstraße and surrounding streets, with the kind of "villas" inhabited by (what I would assume) the kind of owners that would already be in the courts litigating. Who knows though, maybe they've already been there and failed.

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8 hours ago, LukeSkywalker said:

Nothing compared though when I heard a Concorde flying over once in Manchester in landing modus.

 

As a kid we lived near the Concorde flight path out of Heathrow, and it was so normal to have that massive earth shattering roar. Seems extraordinary now.

 

Having it nearly land on your head must have been appalling.

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4 hours ago, kiplette said:

 

As a kid we lived near the Concorde flight path out of Heathrow, and it was so normal to have that massive earth shattering roar. Seems extraordinary now.

 

 

 

Me too! I guess we were almost neighbours!

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49 minutes ago, HEM said:

I grew up not far from Woodford aerodrome where the Vulcan was built / serviced.

Had basically the same engines as Concorde - without reheat.

 

Woodford was my first airshow I attended, seeing the Vulcan do a display is a memory that is always with me. ( Sight and sound )

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11 hours ago, kiplette said:

Having it nearly land on your head must have been appalling.

Well, frightening is the better word. I was still asleep in the morning when it came over. It really sounded it was just above the building or about to crash.  Normally, the Concorde didn't land in Manchester, so the horrible sound was new to me.

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12 hours ago, Simon Pic said:

Neighboours... tolerating and suffering in silence, as usual. Which is rather ironic when being among people that regularly complain to each other about the noise of toilets flushing after 22:00..

 

Nail hits head. With a resounding clang.

 

12 hours ago, Simon Pic said:

If a problem is not being identified and recognized, then there's no problem to speak of...and a few years later people have perhaps already "adjusted" to it.

 

Ditto. Also applies to other areas of your life. :lol: Thus, the totally abnormal becomes normal... but not good.

 

There is a (semi) defunct military airbase near us. Occasionally you get the odd fighter plane - sometimes two or three doing sync exercises - and I kid you not I have ducked in my garden and small children (and their mums) have been traumatised before. They were most definitely not hundreds of metres above us, whatever it might say in the book.

 

I guess I was lucky to have grown up against the constant background noise of the steelworks. You only realised it was there when it stopped. Preferable to aircraft noise any day. Now it's just tractors in the vinyards at the crack of dawn...

 

We live in a noisy world. And my mother foresaw it. I remember her telling me when I was very young that she was afraid I would have to live with a lot of noise. Even the birds are singing at newly deafening levels to get noticed above the din. Anyone else noticed this?

 

 

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12 hours ago, Cheekyfox said:

 

Woodford was my first airshow I attended, seeing the Vulcan do a display is a memory that is always with me. ( Sight and sound )

I lived from about 1959 to 1979 near the North end of Bramhall.  Went to many Woodford airshows - supposedly the largest 1-day show in the UK.

Had to walk to the airshow - driving would have been a waste of time.

 

Memorable features:

- Concorde 002 (the UK prototype) 4 weeks after it first flew.

- Vulcan each time

- English Electric Lightning

- Victor bomber (converted to tanker): brake release to "mile high" in 60 seconds

- Avro Lancaster

- Hawker Harrier

- Red Arrows

- Patrouille de France

 

und, und und...

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today's new catch (wasn't noisy as it was flying high, but I was just curious..)

 

https://fr24.com/CL35/28002ff7

 

Looks like a private flight with a Bombardier Challenger 350 aircraft type, which crossed Bogenhausen and landed at Oberpfaffenhofen.

Apparently it flew out of Mykonos...at least someone is having fun!

 

I wonder is this some sort of private rented ride or someone local who actually owns such an aircraft (looks like prices are around 15 million, so probably affordable by some).

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I actually know someone who took early retirement a few years ago as A380 captain for LH and recently gained the type rating for the Cessna Citation C525 Series.  As he wrote: the max take-off weight is less than 5 tons whilst a single A380 engine weighed at least 6!

He refers to it as a "pocket rocket".

 

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Honestly, it has been a total circus this entire morning. From ADAC and DRF circling around the area and gardens 5-6 times, and at least another 5-6 different kinds of private small aircrafts "having fun" just above our heads. And they keep going every few minutes or so. What the hell really? Is noone being bothered by this? Am I the only one sitting under a hotspot of air-activity?

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