Bachelor's study in Germany for American Students - minimum GPA requirements.

[rajapkp 0]

Hello,

     Looking for guidance on  Admission requirements for Bachelors Program in Mathematics and Science and we see this mentioned below  in DAAD and Anabin database

" if the requirements for the United States of America High School Diploma are met and an unweighted Cumulative Grade Point Average (CumGPA) of 3.0 is proven"

 

Does anyone know if this Unweighted GPA 3.0  is on a scale of 4.0 or 5.0 ? 

 

Are there any German universities that accepts USA students into the Studienkolleg for bachelors program with Unweighted Cumulative GPA below 3.0 ?

 

Thank you so much

-Rajapkp

 

[jeba 3,876]

If you don´t get an answer here you might want to contact the "Zeugnisanerkennungsstelle" of the state you want to study in. They are the authority in charge of assessing foreign qualifications. The email for the Bavarian one is zastby@zast.bayern.de; phone: +49 (0) 89 38 38 49 0

[rajapkp 0]

Thank you so much Jeba ! Will contact them tomorrow. 

 

Can I also ask another question on university admissions for bachelors  ?  What are the odds of finding a German university that does not require a Uni-Assist application ?  I am a High School student graduating soon and I am asking mainly because I may be stuck with a slightly lower High School GPA than the required and I don't want to wait for 2 more years before re-applying. 

 

Thanks a lot

-Rajapkp 

[engelchen 12,897]

1 hour ago, rajapkp said:

 

     Looking for guidance on  Admission requirements for Bachelors Program in Mathematics and Science and we see this mentioned below  in DAAD and Anabin database

" if the requirements for the United States of America High School Diploma are met and an unweighted Cumulative Grade Point Average (CumGPA) of 3.0 is proven"

 

4.0

1 hour ago, rajapkp said:

What are the odds of finding a German university that does not require a Uni-Assist application ? 

 

There are quite a few. 

 

1 hour ago, rajapkp said:

I am a High School student graduating soon and I am asking mainly because I may be stuck with a slightly lower High School GPA than the required and I don't want to wait for 2 more years before re-applying. 

 

Why 2 years? Why Germany? 

[rajapkp 0]

Thank you  engelchen !!   I also see this got moved to the Education forum which is probably where this belongs. 

 

 

Why Germany ? answer

 Well , i have seen college kids here in USA including older friends and family who went to decent schools some even to Ivy league schools and its my opinion that they are just party schools. there is not much depth in what they learn. Most of them end up as software engineers  or work in a Bank and they cant do anything else.  Again this is just my opinion and I could be completely wrong.    I have better faith in education in Europe.   I feel like I can study in Europe and then comeback for Masters or career in America. 

 

 

Why 2 years ?  answer 

2 years if I do bachelors for 2 years in USA and get better grades and re-apply in Germany freshly with better GPA. 

 

I am planning to do the German language studies this summer anyway in Munich and will work towards getting a B2 or C1 proficiency.   But after my German language program I wanted to get a bachelors in Germany.  If I can't get admission because I have a 2.75 gpa on a 4.0 scale then thats too sad.   I am going to do the language course in Munich anyway. 

 

 

What would be helpful to me is to know what potential avenues I have after completing the language course ?  I have read a bunch of online material  watched online videos and talked to some university placement services over the phone and I get different conflicting answers.  There is also not much info about bachelors program. most of the Q&A is on Masters program.

 

My first preference was Math/Science/STEM.  but if grades are an issue , I am open to studying  Music or Economics or Business mgmt.  I have done 8 years of Guitar with music theory and little bit of my own short compositions. I am not sure if I can get into any of these programs with a GPA below 3.0 ( on 4.0 scale ).   is the 3.0 gpa ( on a 4.0 ) scale pretty cut and dry ? are there any exceptions ?  does any references/recommendations help at all ?

 

Any suggestions or advice are welcome and greatly appreciated.  

 

-Rajapkp

 

[rajapkp 0]

Another thing to ask was does   admission to Hochschule allowed for USA citizens and does it also require 3.0 gpa on a 4.0 scale ?

 

-Rajapkp

[jeba 3,876]

 

9 hours ago, rajapkp said:

My first preference was Math/Science/STEM.

If your grades are so poor you might have a problem studying one of these . My son studied air-and space IT and almost half of his peers didn´t make to their degrees. Especially foreigners with poor command of German seemed to be at risk of dropping out.

[engelchen 12,897]

 

9 hours ago, rajapkp said:

 Well , i have seen college kids here in USA including older friends and family who went to decent schools some even to Ivy league schools and its my opinion that they are just party schools. there is not much depth in what they learn. Most of them end up as software engineers  or work in a Bank and they cant do anything else.  Again this is just my opinion and I could be completely wrong.   

 

I don't know where you came up with that assumption. From my experience the German system churns out many Fachidioten.

 

9 hours ago, rajapkp said:

 

I have better faith in education in Europe.   I feel like I can study in Europe and then comeback for Masters or career in America. 

 

With respect to Germany I disagree. I can't speak to the rest if the continent. 

 

9 hours ago, rajapkp said:

 I do bachelors for 2 years in USA and get better grades and re-apply in Germany freshly with better GPA. 

 

Your high school and university grades will be averaged.

 

9 hours ago, rajapkp said:

I have read a bunch of online material  watched online videos and talked to some university placement services over the phone and I get different conflicting answers. 

 

The placement services don't seem to know as much as they like to claim. 

 

9 hours ago, rajapkp said:

I am not sure if I can get into any of these programs with a GPA below 3.0 ( on 4.0 scale ).   is the 3.0 gpa ( on a 4.0 ) scale pretty cut and dry ? are there any exceptions ? 

 

You'd need to contact each school individually and try to convince them. Most Studienkolleg won't even consider you because they already have too many applicants. 

 

9 hours ago, rajapkp said:

does any references/recommendations help at all ?

 

Usually not enough to compensate for such a low GPA. 

 

9 hours ago, rajapkp said:

Any suggestions or advice are welcome and greatly appreciated.  

 

My advice would be to look for a good school in the US for your undergrad degree.

 

However, if you really want to study in Germany and if Corona rules allow it make appointments with schools with a Studienkolleg during the summer when you are in Germany to see if any of them would be willing to give you a chance.

 

Alternatively if it is not too late, you could take the necessary AP exams before completing your diploma. 

[rajapkp 0]

Thank you engelchen !   for taking the time to answer all my questions .    

 

One last question  -  Is  Zulassungsfrei  for  Hochschule   considered a Bachelors degree ?  I am assuming they too have the minimum GPA 3.0 requirement.

 

-Rajapkp

[engelchen 12,897]

 

On 02/06/2021, 09:35:13, rajapkp said:

Is  Zulassungsfrei  for  Hochschule   considered a Bachelors degree ?  I am assuming they too have the minimum GPA 3.0 requirement.

 

This question makes no sense. 

 

Zulassungsfrei means that anyone who has a HZB will be accepted. Usually over a third of the students who start in these programmes don't make it past the 1st semester. 

 

The Abitur is the general Hochschulzugangsberechtigung (HZB) in Germany. The Anabin databank provides info on the most common foreign equivalents. 

 

When you're in Munich I would recommend that you make an appointment at the Studienkolleg and ask them about your chances of getting admitted to the Studienkolleg as well as if they would let you take the Feststellungsprüfung as an external candidate. You should also ask for copies of past tests so that you can see what you'll be expected to know. 

 

 

[rajapkp 0]

Thank you Sir  for your info !.  Will keep that in mind when I am in Munich.  Take Care !

 

-Rajapkp

[rajapkp 0]

Question regarding sending certified documents to UniAssist. 

 

1. I got my high school diploma certificate and I can  get it notarized and i can send it to UniAssist Berlin .  Will this work ?

 

2. My school is only giving me unofficial transcripts. So I dont think I can notarize an unofficial transcript. But the  school said they can directly send the transcripts to UniAssist Berlin address  ( although I have no way to track it ).   Is there a better option for me to send certified transcripts ?

 

Thanks a lot

 

[rajapkp 0]

Hello engelchen and other fellow community members,

  

      I had submitted my official high school transcripts to uni-assist back in June.  

 

Yesterday we got letter from uni-assist that my application is incomplete as my Transcripts does not show "unweighted GPA for grades 9-12"  

 

I actually submitted what every my school gave me.  typically my school calculates 4 year unweighted cumulative GPA  but due to covid-19  they only calculated unweighted cum GPA from 9-11 grades and they reported separately GPA for 12th grade.   I tried to contact my school to ask them if they can calculate unweighted cum GPA  for 4 years ( 9-12 grades ) but I did not get a good answer if they are willing to do it just for me. 

 

I am stuck in this situation that uni-assist is not accepting my official transcript.  Are there any explanations they will accept  directly from the school why the unweighted cum gpa  ?    Can I request Uni-Assist to forward my application to university even if they consider it incomplete. 

 

Does it makes sense for me to directly contact the University and by-pass the Uni-Assist altogether ?

 

If anyone can suggest how to respond to Uni-Assist that would be greatly appreciated.  

 

Thanks a lot !!

 

 

 

 

 

[rajapkp 0]

 Forgot to mention ...  I am in Munich right now so I dont know if  directly contacting the university admissions department is a good idea or is it something the universities frown upon ?

 

Regards

 

[Metall 13,832]

I know nothing about the entire grades process, but you definitely can directly contact the university admissions department and explain your problem there!

[rajapkp 0]

So just to update my situation,   my High School as an ad-hoc request, managed to  manually calculate my cumulative gpa  and send it to Uni Assist.   But later Uni-Assist found my gpa just below the 3.0 requirement for American High School Students. and so they rejected. I remember people on this forum had already told me this was going to happen.  Since I got good grades in my 11th and 12th grade I was hoping they would consider my application.  It was really my 9th grade thats hurting me. Even though I expected  that Uni-Assist will reject me  but seeing the actual rejection letter made me a bit depressed  

Its clear now that  going thru UNI-Assist is a NO-GO for me and I am told most if not all  Hochschules and Universities go thru Uni-Assist for international students.

 

Anyway I will be in Munich for almost 11 more months and will try to get my B2 certificate. Are there any other avenues for me whether directly contacting the university anywhere in the country is worth a shot ? 

 

Engelchen had earlier suggested to contact StudienKollegs directly if they are willing to give me a placement test before they consider me. But I dont have any leads on this and how to find these contacts

 

 

I feel pretty good about taking tests. I got decent/OK scores in SAT and other ALEKS Maths test that I took recently in USA. 

 

I feel the main reason for my low grades in 9th and 10th was I was pursuing other activities that kind of distracted from devoting my full time to studies.  I was in the swim team, I was doing classical guitar for 8 years. did a bit wrestling and sailing.  I look back and regret that I wasted my time in these activities and its affecting my college prospects very badly. I wish I know that 9th and 10th grades were so important. And the school does not even allow to take AP courses if the 9th or 10th grades are low. So you get stuck in this vicious circle.   I know someone who did rowing in high school and managed to get into ivy league ( Yale ). So I picked the wrong sport and off course did not have any medals or high acheivements to show for it. 

 

Oh well, sorry about  my sob story.  This is what it feels like to have a reject letter in hand  

 

If anyone has any leads for me, I would really appreciate it.    At one point I was considering studying music ( classical guitar ) but I dont know if thats even an option for me in Germany with this Uni-Assist rejection. 

 

Regards

 

 

[engelchen 12,897]

We seem to be having a huge communication problem.

 

On 27.8.2021, 06:53:05, rajapkp said:

So just to update my situation,   my High School as an ad-hoc request, managed to  manually calculate my cumulative gpa  and send it to Uni Assist.   But later Uni-Assist found my gpa just below the 3.0 requirement for American High School Students. and so they rejected. I remember people on this forum had already told me this was going to happen.  Since I got good grades in my 11th and 12th grade I was hoping they would consider my application.  It was really my 9th grade thats hurting me. Even though I expected  that Uni-Assist will reject me  but seeing the actual rejection letter made me a bit depressed  

 

Although I have many complaints about how Germany markets its university courses to foreign students, the recommendations on how foreign secondary school diplomas should be evaluated in Germany is very transparent for diplomas listed in the anabin databank. Anabin clearly states that a minimum CGPA of 3.0 is required for applicants with an American high school diploma in order to be eligible for admission to the Studienkolleg. Furthemore, there are more applicants for Studienkolleg than places and not everyone who meets even the minimum requirements receives a spot.

 

Question 1

You knew three months ago that you wouldn't meet the absolute minimum requirements for entry into a Studienkolleg, yet you are surprised that you were not admitted by uni-assist.

Why did you think that you had a chance of being admitted despite not meeting the minimum CGPA??!?!!?!?

 

 

On 1.6.2021, 20:58:22, rajapkp said:

I am planning to do the German language studies this summer anyway in Munich and will work towards getting a B2 or C1 proficiency.   But after my German language program I wanted to get a bachelors in Germany.  If I can't get admission because I have a 2.75 gpa on a 4.0 scale then thats too sad.   I am going to do the language course in Munich anyway.

 

Quote

Anyway I will be in Munich for almost 11 more months and will try to get my B2 certificate

 

When you said that you were planning on learning German this summer in Munich, I didn't realises that you were planning on coming for a full year.

 

Question 2

 

Why did you decide to spend a year learning German in Germany when you knew that you wouldn't be eligible to study here without going back to the US for two years of college? Do you have any plans on how you will use your language skills once you are back in the US?

 

Quote

And the school does not even allow to take AP courses if the 9th or 10th grades are low. So you get stuck in this vicious circle.   I know someone who did rowing in high school and managed to get into ivy league ( Yale ). So I picked the wrong sport and off course did not have any medals or high acheivements to show for it.

 

First of all, Germany doesn't give athletes a pass on academics.

 

Question 3

Why are you comparing yourself with high performing athletes when you are not one?

 

On 27.8.2021, 06:53:05, rajapkp said:

 At one point I was considering studying music ( classical guitar ) but I dont know if thats even an option for me in Germany with this Uni-Assist rejection.

 

 

Question 4

 

Are you a serious musician? How many hours a day do you practice?

 

After re-reading your posts, you seem to feel that you should be given special treatment and I cannot understand why. 

 

[rajapkp 0]

Hello Engelchen, sorry if I offended you .  But thanks for reading my post(s)   you really went back to my older questions in June  . Very good.  I really appreciate your time, So let me respond to your questions to the best of my ability.  

 

Q1.  Yes I agree it was wishful thinking for me to think uni-assist will consider me. I dont want to share my transcripts here but in 11th grade and 12 grade my gpa was 3.4 but due to poor grade in 9th and 10 my GPA came down below 3. To make matters worse my school reported cumulative GPA for only 3 year period 9th to 11th this year due to COVID ( instead of the typical  4 year period 9th to 12th ). This is why uni-assist made the ad-hoc request to my school to re-calcuate the GPA. It was still below 3.0 so I didnt have a chance.   I was hoping I would get some consideration for my better performance in 11th and 12th.  Well, I now know there will be no consideration and I fully accept my rejection. 

 

Q2. I have taken one-year gap year so I wanted to learn the language and travel a bit. When I resume my studies back in US I have some ideas on how to stay in touch with German language. I can volunteer in Goethe institute. There is one near where I live and I have already spoken to them.  I can also do some German language studies within my American college itself. they offer have some German classes with different levels. I will try to stay in touch by reading news online or may be watching German movies borrowing them from our library.  

 

Q3. No I was not trying to get credit for my swimming abilities.  I was expressing my regret for not focusing on getting good grades in 9th and 10th and got   distracted by sports. Swimming did take a lot of my time evenings and weekends and participating in different meets which can be anywhere in the country.   This means missed homework assignments etc. I was also doing wrestling for 2 years. Again I am not blaming anyone for this. It was my own choice. At that time I did not know that grades impact college prospects and I did not know about the Uni-Assist requirements either. 

 

Q4. Yes, I have been studying flamenko/classical guitar for last 9 years. I practiced at least  18 to 20 hours a week for last 7 years. I have participated in competitions like Boston GuitarFest and a few others locally.  I have played classical pieces from J.S. Bach, Beethoven, Augistine Barrios Mangore, Fransisco Tarrega  to name a few. I also have a few small compositions of my own.  I have a few videos in Youtube  ( nothing big but I can share if interested ) . This is why I asked about MusikHochschule.  I am by no means bragging about any of this.  I am just writing this because you asked. 

 

I am feeling OK now about the UniAssist rejection as I did not meet their minimum requirements.   I am definitely not asking for any special treatment. If I dont deserve something then I should not expect it.  Please do not be offended Engelchen .  I just turned 18 and am a bit anxious whether I pick the right path thats all.  If I make any wrong turns now it will not be correctable later. 

 

If you still have appetite to answer two questions I have let me know I will ask only after hearing your response. 

 

Regards

Rajapkp

 

 

 

[jeba 3,876]

5 hours ago, rajapkp said:

I just turned 18 and am a bit anxious whether I pick the right path thats all.  If I make any wrong turns now it will not be correctable later. 

Given that you´re so young what about trying to make a German Abitur? Maybe enrolling into a German "Gymnasium" would be an option?

[engelchen 12,897]

On 31/08/2021, 23:42:13, rajapkp said:

Hello Engelchen, sorry if I offended you .

 

I'm not offended, however, I don't see any point wasting my time answering people who don't want to believe me. If you want to waste your time and your parents' money, that is your problem. I am not willing to waste my time. 

 

Quote

Q1.  Yes I agree it was wishful thinking for me to think uni-assist will consider me. I dont want to share my transcripts here but in 11th grade and 12 grade my gpa was 3.4 but due to poor grade in 9th and 10 my GPA came down below 3. To make matters worse my school reported cumulative GPA for only 3 year period 9th to 11th this year due to COVID ( instead of the typical  4 year period 9th to 12th ).

 

I don't need to see your transcripts, based on the info you've posted you were a mediocre student in high school and you do not have the required minimum educational background to even be admitted to the Studienkolleg. I'm not saying this to insult you, but I have the impression that you have not understood how things work in Germany. 

 

The minimum requirements to obtain a high school diploma in many American states are not very high and the ZAB has revised the minimum requirements repeatedly for American high school diplomas in the past two decades. Direct entry to German universities is now only recommended for American high school graduates who have also done well on the AP exams. Your high school wouldn't even let you take AP courses based on your academic performance and you didn't study on your own to take them either. 

 

Uni-assist is basically a service provider contracted by some schools to evaluate foreign degrees and diplomas using the criteria set by the ZAB. Uni-Assist is not authorised to grant exceptions to the guidelines set by the ZAB under any circumstances. Only the ZAB and the universities themselves have the legal authority to grant exceptions (and many of the good universities have a strict policy of not granting any exceptions under any circumstances in order to be fair to all applicants). There was never any chance of uni-assist evaluating your American high school diploma as anything other than keine HZB given that your CGPA was so low. 

 

The Studienkolleg is a preparatory year for foreign students who don't have the necessary secondary school qualifications to enter university directly. However, there are not enough spots in the Studienkolleg for all the applicants who meet the minimum requirements for the Studienkolleg. There is also probably a rather large gap between what you learned in high school and what you'd need to know before starting the Studienkolleg. Theoretically a school is allowed to admit you without a HZB, however, admitting you to the Studienkolleg wouldn't be fair to all the other applicants who meet the minimum requirements and most of the good schools won't even consider it. 

 

Quote

I was expressing my regret for not focusing on getting good grades in 9th and 10th and got   distracted by sports. Swimming did take a lot of my time evenings and weekends and participating in different meets which can be anywhere in the country.   This means missed homework assignments etc. I was also doing wrestling for 2 years. Again I am not blaming anyone for this. It was my own choice.

 

It really doesn't matter why your grades were low, you can't change them now. On the other hand, you had some interesting experiences in high school that other students didn't.

 

Quote

At that time I did not know that grades impact college prospects and I did not know about the Uni-Assist requirements either. 

 

Uni-assist do not set any requirements, they merely evaluate foreign qualifications according to the standards set by the ZAB. I can't stress this point enough.

 

Quote

Q4. Yes, I have been studying flamenko/classical guitar for last 9 years. I practiced at least  18 to 20 hours a week for last 7 years. I have participated in competitions like Boston GuitarFest and a few others locally.  I have played classical pieces from J.S. Bach, Beethoven, Augistine Barrios Mangore, Fransisco Tarrega  to name a few. I also have a few small compositions of my own.  I have a few videos in Youtube  ( nothing big but I can share if interested ) . This is why I asked about MusikHochschule.  I am by no means bragging about any of this.  I am just writing this because you asked. 

 

I know that it is theoretically possible to be admitted to a Musikhochschule with a HZB, but I don't know how you could practice 20 hours a week and learn German 20 hours a week. You'd need to contact the Musikhochschulen individually. You should be aware that admission is very competitive and if you dropped out for any reason you wouldn't have the necessary education to study something else.

 

Quote

I just turned 18 and am a bit anxious whether I pick the right path thats all.  If I make any wrong turns now it will not be correctable later. 

 

If you are worried about choosing the wrong path, you should stop making decisions based on inaccurate assumptions.