Germany as an Eastern European vs a low-tax country?

36 posts in this topic

Also, btw Sofia is way underratead as a city.

 

I was there once. Friendly people. Amazing light feeling in the air. Low salary and low taxes. But life is good in Bulgaria.

Zoom is coming after many countries in western Europe... 

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1 hour ago, kapil354 said:

I am moving to Pilsen guys.

It's because of the excellent beer, isn't it 🍺? Very difficult though to keep up with the Czech.

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On 5/21/2021, 7:55:17, bytex said:

Meanwhile a Bulgarian co-worker with a uni degree and great German used to work as a delivery driver in Germany.

He may have had a degree which there isn´t demand for. Before I retired I used to work for the German branch of a Swiss multinational. They had many Eastern Europeans working highly qualified jobs (physicians, statisticians, pharmacists) at their headquarter in the German speaking part of Switzerland. I somehow doubt that their German equivalents have different hiring policies.

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5 hours ago, kapil354 said:

I was there once. Friendly people. Amazing light feeling in the air. Low salary and low taxes. But life is good in Bulgaria.

Is it? I've never heard someone speak so bad about their own country like several of my (unrelated) Bulgarian friends.

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20 hours ago, alderhill said:

Make a mistake and you may get totally baffled face-scrunching.

 

This made me laugh... because it is so true. And that's when they are exercising self-restraint. :lol:

 

13 hours ago, bytex said:

... it seems to not be welcoming enough considering its language is one of the most difficult in the EU!

 

And there you have your answer. I agree.

 

Your question seems to be about risk. Is it worth the effort to learn German (not a world language) for the rewards likely attainable ? I agree with your analysis that there are probably better places than Germany, especially if you are not competitive / exploitative by nature. It is a rat race IME. I am British and spoke good German but got nowhere fast even in an international (but German) company and was not offered suitable jobs. You can only take what is offered. So it's not just Eastern Europeans - and women - who get second pickings. Yes, there is a hierarchy. And yes the culture is exploitative. If the world is your oyster, I'd be looking elsewhere. Inicdentally, I lived in several different countries and have no regrets about leaving Germany.

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On 5/21/2021, 7:24:35, bytex said:

So if you're Eastern European like would you rather find a corporate job in a multinational in Pilsen in Czechia and just visit nearby Bavarian cities on weekends? Or rather go to Germany.

Sorry, but this question is too vague. If you want a vague answer: as an Eastern European I would move as far from the former Communist bloc as possible. 

 

Btw, I lived in Bayreuth and visited Pilsen/Prague. 

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On 5/21/2021, 10:13:07, BethAnnBitt said:

 I'm a retired therapist. ... In Germany I can see why one needs to be fluent in German. Turkish would help, or another language of a minority population, but English?  It doesn't compute IMO.  This is not the 🇺🇸, where fluency in Spanish helps.  It's 🇩🇪.

 

The demand for English-speaking health professionals--particularly for therapists--is through the roof in this part of Germany, waiting lists are very long and it can be very hard to find a therapist that speaks your language and who you also get along with.  That's also not just limited to native English speakers, consider how many people are much more comfortable using English than German, from all countries of the world, even years after living in Germany and having learned a fair bit of German.  The demand is there and it is high.  Maybe a little less in Munich than in Berlin, but in any city where there are foreigners, there will be people who prefer services in English.

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8 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

but in any city where there are foreigners, there will be people who prefer services in English.

Excellent point.  Many more services are available in English right across the border in 🇨🇭.  Fluency in English is much better there too.

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On 22/05/2021, 07:22:21, Tap said:

 

I think the difference here is that in Canada, everyone speaks English, so if someone joins a company whose English isn’t too good, they can cope with it.

Here in Germany, that’s not the case, not everybody can speak English.

 

 

The issue, however, is that a high level of German is required for most non-technical jobs and many German employers are not as willing to make allowances and cope with less than stellar German. 

 

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I work with 6 completely different companies, helping them with their business English.  Yes, everyone here learns English in school, but that’s not always effective. I learned Irish every day when I was in school, it was compulsory, but apart from a few basic phrases, I couldn’t put a sentence together now, so I get that not all Germans can speak English.

 

I realise that many Germans do not speak English, however, that is not in and of itself a problem. However, most German officials running the campaigns to attract foreign workers like to claim that it is possible for skilled professionals  (without making any distinction between occupations) to find jobs in Germany without any knowledge of German. 

 

12 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

 

The demand for English-speaking health professionals--particularly for therapists--is through the roof in this part of Germany, waiting lists are very long and it can be very hard to find a therapist that speaks your language and who you also get along with.  That's also not just limited to native English speakers, consider how many people are much more comfortable using English than German, from all countries of the world, even years after living in Germany and having learned a fair bit of German.  The demand is there and it is high.  Maybe a little less in Munich than in Berlin, but in any city where there are foreigners, there will be people who prefer services in English.

 

Although I agree that many would prefer service in English, how many would be willing (and able) to pay privately for it? AFAIK, the massive waiting lists are only for therapists covered by insurance. 

 

 

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@engelchen There are really a lot of freelancers as well as employed English-speaking foreigners here making very decent money, I don't know who you know.

 

You completely lost me on the point of insurance.  You don't think foreigners are insured in Germany? :blink: Or what point are you trying to make that has eluded me?

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4 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

@engelchen There are really a lot of freelancers as well as employed English-speaking foreigners here making very decent money, I don't know who you know.

 

In Berlin there are many freelance English teachers and artists barely making ends meet.

 

4 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

You completely lost me on the point of insurance.  You don't think foreigners are insured in Germany? :blink: Or what point are you trying to make that has eluded me?

 

The point is that foreign therapists who don't speak sufficient German cannot receive recognition of their foreign qualifications. Without formal qualifications recognised in Germany, they are not allowed to provide medical services that can be reimbursed by insurance. Although foreign therapists can provide certain types of counselling services (preferably after obtaining legal advice on what exactly is permitted), patients need to pay for these services out of pocket. 

 

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Oh, I see.  Thank you for explaining.

 

Well, you don't have facebook, and apparently know different people than I do, so I guess you don't know about all the German qualified AND English-speaking therapists from all parts of the world who take insurance, nor about all the good-earning foreigners who are able and prepared to pay for counselling not covered by insurance.  Through my women's and POC groups on FB I've learned just how large these networks are.  Still, there's more demand than supply most of the time.

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There are many German artists and freelance teachers that are not at all well paid. I think reason for this is their type of work. Not so much their ability to speak German. 

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I’m a freelance English trainer and I’ve etched out a good living doing this, as have many of my colleagues.  As a freelancer, you need to have a good qualification, to specialise in some way, and do some training.  If you’re competing with thousands of others with the same skill level, it’s not going to work, you need to develop your own USP, something the client wants or needs that others can’t offer and I’d say that goes for most freelance work. 

 

My Frauenarzt is Hungarian, My eye doctor is from the Czech Republic and my Hausarzt is from the Yemen, they all seem to be doing ok here too.

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My dental surgery is shared by two Iranians, but their German is so good, I'm sure they grew up and studied here.  My eye doctor is an older Syrian with equaly good German. 

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On 5/22/2021, 9:18:42, kapil354 said:

Also, btw Sofia is way underratead as a city.

 

I was there once. Friendly people. Amazing light feeling in the air. Low salary and low taxes. But life is good in Bulgaria.

Zoom is coming after many countries in western Europe... 

It's fine. After all my relatives and parents are here. But I made more friends in Bratislava. Most people are very busy in Sofia. I think it's better for expats than local really. I'd chose Burgas or Varna. As for Germany, ironically I love the sound of German and even in songs. My problem is with the ridiculously long compound words in contracts and in work settings. Krankenversicherung seems very scary at first (I've worked in French healthcare and Assurance Maladie seems much easier). I pray that one day they adopt dashes, e.g. Kranken-versicherung seems neater. :) Still, the Thuringian hills are some of the most beautiful I've seen anywhere. Maybe I can try modeling work in Munich lol. No need to be great at German for that. :P

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