Working parents with little children

35 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, alderhill said:

I've been surprised to encounter this notion in people who otherwise consider themselves progressive or liberal or whatever, but it is certainly a strong cultural belief here. It is hardly a surprise that Germany's population is rapidly shrinking, despite decent child benefits and labour schemes.

 

I once had a colleague here -- a single mother of 3 girls -- who was 'indirectly' called a Rabenmutter here, by a woman, a school director in fact, at one of her city's more prestigious 'posh' schools. She was told in a meeting something like "only a Rabenmutter wouldn't take my advice...", because the single, divorced (dad in another country), full-time working mom had to commute 60ish minutes to work and couldn't be home at 1pm to immediately help with homework, etc. 

 

I was surprised too because in my home country, all the women went on strike in 1975, flocked downtown, marched and sang songs and demanded their right to child care availability bringing freedom of employment.  The tendency there is to expect a mother to be a super mom, one who juggles kids and career and still has time for zumba class.  Not that this is good either because I believe that everybody should have a choice without getting harrassed for it.

 

A wife of a friend has told me she hears the whispers in the cafeteria at her workplace like "why would she even have kids if she wants to work full time".  Back home, she would be considered normal and women who stay home might hear whispers like "no ambition, just a housewife" etc.

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12 hours ago, LeonG said:

....

A wife of a friend has told me she hears the whispers in the cafeteria at her workplace like "why would she even have kids if she wants to work full time".  ...

 

isn't it sad, that we rarely ever read "... my friend's husband told me he hears people whisper in the cafeteria 'why whould he even have kids, if he wants to work full time?'...." 

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17 hours ago, alderhill said:

I've been surprised to encounter this notion in people who otherwise consider themselves progressive or liberal or whatever

Maybe they´re people who know know how important the first years are for emotional development? Such as my daughter´s psychotherapist who I asked at the time whether I could go back to work while having infants.

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17 minutes ago, karin_brenig said:

 

isn't it sad, that we rarely ever read "... my friend's husband told me he hears people whisper in the cafeteria 'why whould he even have kids, if he wants to work full time?'..." 

 

I think it's sad that it's being said about anybody at all.  Generations of people have spent time in day care as kids while the parents worked and somehow it did not ruin their psyche.  I don't see any difference in my nieces and nephews who spent time in day care vs. had a stay home parent.  You can be a parent and still have a job.

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3 hours ago, LeonG said:

I think it's sad that it's being said about anybody at all.

I disagree. And I disagree strongly enough to have taken 6 years of parental leave.

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Some parents are frankly terrible and the kids are better off in a decent daycare. Some brilliant part time parents might not be so good full-time, who knows. The better thing was probably in the past when there was a larger community of people looking after children generally, in extended families, neighbourhoods ets. We are so compartmentalised now. Hence stark choices like full-time work versus full-time daycare. Put yourself in an expensive housing neighbourhood and choices are fewer.

 

 Unfortunately some of the stay at home parents are the rubbish ones, and that's the worst outcome..

 

17 hours ago, LeonG said:

A wife of a friend has told me she hears the whispers in the cafeteria at her workplace like "why would she even have kids if she wants to work full time".  Back home, she would be considered normal and women who stay home might hear whispers like "no ambition, just a housewife" etc.

 

Yup - unfair all ways round. Karin has a point - why don't men get gossiped about the same?

jeba staying home with his kids was a great choice, I think men are brilliant in Early Years.

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4 hours ago, jeba said:

Maybe they´re people who know know how important the first years are for emotional development? Such as my daughter´s psychotherapist who I asked at the time whether I could go back to work while having infants.

 

1 hour ago, jeba said:

I disagree. And I disagree strongly enough to have taken 6 years of parental leave.

 

My goodness, you are full of some crap. My son has been going to Krippe since 12 months old and he loves it. My wife drops him off at 8:30 and I pick him at at 3. He'd be bored off his tits if he was stuck at home with us 24/7. We've no family nearby and corona has closed down anything remotely fun for a year now. Thank fuck for Krippe. My wife can work full time, I do about 80% and our son can have some fun with kids his age. It's not boarding school, just a bit of daycare. I know you are an old and judgmental type but try to dial it down a bit. Munich is expensive, people gotta work.

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1 hour ago, kiplette said:

why don't men get gossiped about the same?

I wasn´t. At least I never noticed.

 

44 minutes ago, theGman said:

He'd be bored off his tits if he was stuck at home with us 24/7.

Who says you must stay at home with them? Are there no playgrounds or Krabbelgruppen in Munich? Having a sibling also helps :lol:

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42 minutes ago, jeba said:

Who says you must stay at home with them?

 

Winter and the coronavirus

 

Quote

Are there no playgrounds or Krabbelgruppen in Munich?

 

Winter and the coronavirus

 

Quote

Having a sibling also helps :lol:

 

Don't you start as well. I get enough of that from everyone else in my life :D

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1 hour ago, theGman said:

Don't you start as well. I get enough of that from everyone else in my life 

It´s actually really a good idea. My kids are only 14 months apart and they were their mutual entertainers and playmates. Having one child only would have been much more stressful for me. But with 2 kids my parental leave was the best time of my life.

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I’m not staying at home with the children. I love them and all, but not 24 hours a day, Corona or no Corona. If anyone feels brave enough to tell my wife she ought to stay at home and be a full time mom then good luck (you’ll need it).

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38 minutes ago, jeba said:

It´s actually really a good idea. My kids are only 14 months apart and they were their mutual entertainers and playmates. Having one child only would have been much more stressful for me. But with 2 kids my parental leave was the best time of my life.

 

As good an idea as it may be, not everybody is ready mentally, physically, practically or financially to get pregnant again 5 months after giving birth to the first one. I'll just leave it at that.

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I have 2 female colleagues in Munich who are on parental leave for 5 years now. Almost simultaneously. My manager thought they would come back after 3 years, but then they informed him they had a second child, so another 3 years are added. I don't know what their husbands are doing, but apparently they can afford it.

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On 27/04/2021, 08:23:30, jeba said:

Maybe they´re people who know know how important the first years are for emotional development? Such as my daughter´s psychotherapist who I asked at the time whether I could go back to work while having infants.

 

Yes, and? The two things are not mutually exclusive. I think that's what you either don't realize or don't believe. Don't project.

 

21 hours ago, kiplette said:

The better thing was probably in the past when there was a larger community of people looking after children generally, in extended families, neighbourhoods ets. We are so compartmentalised now. Hence stark choices like full-time work versus full-time daycare. Put yourself in an expensive housing neighbourhood and choices are fewer.

 

I remember my mother-in-law saying there was nothing back then, mid-80s. Daycare only started for 3-4 years old... So she and a few other moms she knew, a couple also teachers, a friend, a cousin, etc. shared child-care duties among each other. Whoever had a free slot between working hours would watch theirs plus a few other kids. Grandparents were nearby and also took their turn, and they had an elderly neighbour who just liked kids and offered now and then, pro bono. I feel like there is definitely less of that today. Not really an option for us, even without corona.

 

 

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2 hours ago, alderhill said:

 I feel like there is definitely less of that today. Not really an option for us, even without corona.

It was still like that when my kids were toddlers in the 90ies. Plus there was sort of a "parent-toddler-meetup" offered by the neighbouring municipality where you could have your kids supervised for a few hours if you e.g. had a dentist appointment. I went there regularly with mine so they were familiar with the other kids, their parents and the staff organising it in case I needed to leave them there. I was the only father though. Hahn im Korb so to speak:lol:

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