Payment for the lawyer of the divorce

10 posts in this topic

I have to pay the lawyer for my divorce (end of 2019). He calculates like this:

 

First bill:

 

Rechnung zu xxxxx (Trennungsunterhalt)

Streitwert insg. 22.351,60 Euro (Gerichtsbeschluss vom 22.11.2019)

1,3 Geschäftsgebühr gemäß VV 2300                                                   1024,40 Euro

1,3 Verfahrensgebühr gemäß VV 3100                                                1024,40 Euro

abzgl. hälftige Geschäftsgebühr                                                            -512,20 Euro

1,2 Terminsgebühr gemäß VV 3104                                                       945,60 Euro

1,0 Vergleichsgebühr gemäß VV 1000, 1003                                        788,00 Euro

2 x Auslagenpauschale gemäß VV 7002 (RVG)                                     40,00 Euro

Zwischensumme                                                                                    3310,20 Euro                      

19 % Mehrwertsteuer gemäß VV 7008 (RVG)                                     628,94 Euro

Summe                                                                                                  3939,14 Euro

Second bill:

Rechnung zu xxxxx (Scheidung und nachehelicher Unterhalt

Streitwert insg. 23.448,00 Euro (Gerichtsbeschluss vom 21.11.2019)

Verfahrensgebühr gemäß VV 3100                                                1024,40 Euro

Terminsgebühr gemäß VV 3104                                                       945,60 Euro

Auslagenpauschale gemäß VV 7002 (RVG)                                     20,00 Euro

Zwischensumme                                                                               1990,00 Euro                           

19 % Mehrwertsteuer gemäß VV 7008 (RVG)                                378,10 Euro

Summe                                                                                              2368,10 Euro

I found it ridiculously high for such a payment, regarding that he is not so very active and supportive in the process. Nevertheless I paid it halfway through. Now I think about the chance to reconsider the payment if it is possible. So I would like to ask if anyone has experience with the payment for the lawyer of the divorce before? I'm not very aware of the German law so if anyone can explain some terms of the bills I would be very much appreciated. In addition, is it possible to engage another firm or lawyer to recheck the cost and maybe re-negotiate the payment? Best regards.

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A lawyer is sending you the bill for this nearly a year and a half later?! 
 

maybe you can tell him you just decided to separate after all in the meantime either that or move to South America or just pay the bill I guess...

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In my opinion it will probably cost you more to contest it than you will save. The second lawyer will most likely charge by the hour, go through every bit of correspondence/email etc. and then tell you that the charges are in line with what is allowed to be charged and possibly (since I do not understand what was being charged) that parts were set fees - and then give you a nice hourly rate bill for reading through it all and replying. Probably not what you want to hear though.

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You can get a rough idea of the expected costs using the calculator supplied by this lot :

 

Scheidung.org

 

It's in German but you can try Google or deepl for an English version.

 

Enter his and her monthly income, any assets and press go. 

 

I suspect, as with other notarial costs, it's based on the amount at stake, not on 'effort involved'

 

 

 

 

 

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So, the lawyer is collecting EUR 5,300   Sounds like a lot -- IF the lawyer didn't do at least 20 hours of work on the project. 

If he put in at least 20 hours, including going to and from a court and waiting around, then I think EUR 5,300 is a reasonable fee.

 

Remember to ask how much things will cost before hiring people.  You don't just sit down at the Friseur without inquiring first if it's going to be 12 or 60 Euros, right?

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21 hours ago, DoubleDTown said:

So, the lawyer is collecting EUR 5,300   Sounds like a lot -- IF the lawyer didn't do at least 20 hours of work on the project. 

If he put in at least 20 hours, including going to and from a court and waiting around, then I think EUR 5,300 is a reasonable fee.

 

Remember to ask how much things will cost before hiring people.  You don't just sit down at the Friseur without inquiring first if it's going to be 12 or 60 Euros, right?

Well, in my country there is a culture to respect high profile people like lawyer, doctor, etc. Is that not so in this country? What I think is that I leave him work and later give a reasonable cost, which is fair and he earns the respect after all. As a matter of fact, I feel that he abuses the system and takes advantage of my generosity. Of course, I can pay it, no doubt :) But I do not want to be taken advantage of and I see that he did not give sufficient effort in the case. What's the point of 20 hours? fully concentration or surfing fb for 5 hours still get paid? Paying per hour for intellectual work is just ridiculous, paying per work package at least makes more sense.

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2 hours ago, kstn said:

Well, in my country there is a culture to respect high profile people like lawyer, doctor, etc. Is that not so in this country?

I am only speaking for myself.  I find living in a foreign land to be incredibly interesting & expanding, and sometimes frustrating.  I don’t particularly enjoy legal proceedings and bills in 🇺🇸 or 🇩🇪, but they are sometimes a fact of life.  Like most people I’m not perfect and must sometimes remind myself to make a good faith effort to refrain from viewing the world only through the lens of my culture and its norms.  This in turn usually helps to lower my blood pressure so that I can focus on what I came here to enjoy. 🙂

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Fees for legal advice and work can often be a shock!   It makes sense to ask about the fees before you agree to the work. ( As you would ask for the cost of dental crowns or hair services!).

Telephone calls, consults, searches and work done by legal juniors- all are costed into the bill.

You have paid the bill, which means you accepted the final cost.

As noted by others- you can contest it, but may well cost even more, and not be successful.

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On 4/11/2021, 10:47:57, kstn said:

Well, in my country there is a culture to respect high profile people like lawyer, doctor, etc. Is that not so in this country? What I think is that I leave him work and later give a reasonable cost, which is fair and he earns the respect after all.

I feel that he abuses the system and takes advantage of my generosity.  I do not want to be taken advantage of

I see that he did not give sufficient effort in the case.

 

 

Germany is big on the "Dr." titles, especially if the German has such a title.  :-)   But I think everyone should be respected.   Mechanics and landscapers as much as lawyers. 

For sure, any service provider should be expected to provide an effort commensurate with the compensation.  If your lawyer didn't, then that's not cool.  You could have argued the bill with him if you think he didn't do enough work, but after you paid it things are pretty much done.

 

 

On 4/11/2021, 10:47:57, kstn said:

What's the point of 20 hours? fully concentration or surfing fb for 5 hours still get paid? Paying per hour for intellectual work is just ridiculous, paying per work package at least makes more sense.

 

Flat fee per project or bill by the hour.  The neverending search for a fair compensation scheme.  Lawyers have traditionally billed their work by the hour.  There has been discussion for decades if that is a good way to go.  There are pluses and minuses to both flat fees and hourly billing.  I based my earlier comment on 20 hours because the cost was about 5300 EUR.  5300 EUR is a reasonable fee for 20 hours of billable lawyer time.  That 20 hours might include things that do not take great intellectual effort, like traveling to court and waiting at court if (as if often the case) the hearing doesn't happen on schedule. 

 

However, the 20 hours should not include surfing fb in his office.  Outside a courtroom, maybe. 

 

If the lawyer was doing work for another client while he was waiting outside the courtroom (e.g. reading or writing something), then he shouldn't bill that time to both you and the other client, that would be illegal.

 

 

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