Mistakenly missed few items in cart to pay. Kaufland filed police complaint.

80 posts in this topic

Kid#2 stole a toy when he was about 8 - I caught him with it in his pocket while we were still in the outer part of the shop, and sent one of the other kids back in with it to put it back. We tried to take him to the Polizei to scare the living daylights out of him, as you would in the UK, but here they just wanted to prosecute him - eventually Paps (ex-policeman) found someone who understood what we wanted and played bad cop for us, but as rob says, past the tills and you are a robber. That's life. 

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17 hours ago, catjones said:

 

Stealing:

take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

 

See the difference here?  Just another german judge/jury.

Isn't shoplifting this?

It is taking property without the intent to return it.

 

Now, the OP can say they would have taken it back (maybe would, maybe wouldn't, I don't know them), but I would assume most places would go for the 'didn't intend to take it back'.

And being honest, outside of 1940s British crime shows, shoplifters do not say 'it's a fair cop guv' when thy are caught. they say 'I forgot about those items'.

Granted, they f*ck things up for people who do forget, but the assholes always screw it up for the rest.

 

 

 

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On 6.3.2021, 20:44:56, hellotoy said:

I immediately released the mistake and offered to pay for the missed items. But he asked me to come to his office. I told him that I missed these items, and I am ready to pay, but he did not listen. (...) He called the police. I also told the same thing to the police.

Thanks for reading this. Any inputs are welcome.

 

Hi,

Expect to get a ban from shopping there.  It's not Germany, this is pretty standard practise everywhere.  It happened to me about 30 years ago now in Quebec, same scenario - a pound of bacon under a bunch of winter clothes (winter there was heavy) and I didn't think to check because I was in a hurry.  Yeah, being treated like a thief is a drag, but you'll get over it. 

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20 minutes ago, silty1 said:

happened to me about 30 years ago now in Quebec, same scenario - a pound of bacon under a bunch of winter clothes (winter there was heavy) and I didn't think to check because I was in a hurry.  

It's so refreshing that someone came along to admit a mistake and is not assuming the OP acted nefariously.  People make mistakes sometimes.  🙏

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40 minutes ago, silty1 said:

Yeah, being treated like a thief is a drag, but you'll get over it. 

 

:lol:

 

That probably sums it up. 

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germany is the only country I've lived in where it's common to have legal insurance.  Never heard of it beforehand.  But obviously there's a reason for it and everyone here is expert in the Law....the Letter; not the Spirit.

In some places, there is a presumption of innocence, not guilt.  @robinson100 you should stick that idea where the sun doesn't shine.

 

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On 3/7/2021, 11:17:16, vivanco said:

This is also illegal. If they know you are not using your own card, then there might be another fraud charge against you. 

This is factually incorrect. A Vollmacht letter signed by the husband is enough to legally use his credit card. Ok, we know nobody does this in practice, however there is no need to throw accusations without knowing it for sure.

 

Now, assuming there was no written permission letter, only oral permission by the husband, then there is no crime case (unless the husband goes to the police and files a complaint), however there is violation of the bank's terms of use. The seller cannot verify the identity of the buyer, and is legally allowed to refuse such purchase. Banks can also refuse liability if there was fraudulent charge by the seller, and they find out the card was not used by its legal owner.

 

Now we stop the offtopic and stick to the facts.

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Now, I have received the letter from the police (still waiting for the letter from Kaufland). I am asked to provide information as shown in the below image:
https://ibb.co/zbCC9CG

 

My answers/comment about the same:

 

Employed: (I am not employed after I moved to Germany)
At the time of crime: No. Currently: No

 

Regular occupation: (I was software developer in India. I guess, that is not relevant here.)
At the time of crime: No. Currently: No

 

Position in the job: Not Applicable / Blank

 

Employer: Not Applicable / Blank

 

Economic conditions: (This is optional field. I can mention my husband’s income here. However, I am not sure if I should. He earns around ~100K EURO per year which I guess is above average salary. I am not sure if this will have negative impact and attract higher fine or positive impact as perceived as possible mistake since no major financial motivation. Please advise.)

 

The offense of which I am accused: (There are two options. First is ‘I admit’. I don’t know what the second option is. Google translate says ‘I insist’ which doesn’t make sense. Is it ‘I deny’? I want to admit the mistake but not the crime of shoplifting. I also do not want to deny and end up in more proceedings, court hearing etc. Please advise which option I should select. What if I keep it blank?)

 

Information on the matter (use supplementary sheet if necessary): (I need to answer this in German. I plan to use Google translate and write down the details pretty much as mentioned in my first post. Please advise what I should mention. Any help in forming the reply in German. I am ready to pay the fine and get over with it. Should I suggest this in my reply?)

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44 minutes ago, hellotoy said:

I am not sure if this will have negative impact and attract higher fine or positive impact as perceived as possible mistake since no major financial motivation. Please advise.)

 

Truth

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3 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

Truth

Not sure what you are trying to imply. The question here is if I should provide the information or leave it blank. The field is optional.

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If your income is above 100k a year you can afford to ask a lawyer.

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I agree with you.  You did not willfully shoplift, so to that charge I would reply "not guilty".

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the thing is that you DID actually do it.  Whether you intended to or not--you did it.

 

You'll be found guilty.  Because security will testify and they might have you on tape.

 

If you want it to be over as quickly as possible, plead guilty, pay the fine, and shop somewhere else for a bit.

 

I am not a lawyer.

 

p.s. I guess neither Kaufland nor security nor the court were born yesterday.  They know that plenty of thieves shoplift with money in their pockets.  They know rich people shoplift, they know people shoplift things they don't need, they know people shoplift for fun.  Your husband making an OK salary is not going to convince them you couldn't possibly be a thief.  Spending €60 on groceries will not convince them you couldn't possibly be a thief.

 

You will be found guilty whether you admit to it or not.  

 

I am, again, not a lawyer.

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Just now, dessa_dangerous said:

 

If you want it to be over as quickly as possible, plead guilty, pay the fine, and shop somewhere else for a bit.

 

I am not a lawyer.

 

Neither am I, but this is the best advice on here. 

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33 minutes ago, Krieg said:

If your income is above 100k a year you can afford to ask a lawyer.

Knowing this causes me to ask why a lawyer has already not been visited.

 

Have you actually told your husband about this yet? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, hellotoy said:

Not sure what you are trying to imply. The question here is if I should provide the information or leave it blank. The field is optional.

You are guilty, despite a mistake on your part.

As posted above- Security staff have heard all the excuses, but you were found with unpaid goods. 

 

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also, I'm not sure if it works the same way here, or for this sort of crime, but it's possible that by pleading guilty you'll be treated actually more leniently.  I guess partially it proves you admit you did something wrong and acknowledge it was a crime, and it saves time and money on administrative costs.  Not sure how that all happens here but you don't want to wind up paying court costs because you wouldn't just say you did what they will easily prove you did.  I imagine you'll have the lowest fines and the lightest slap on the wrist by just copping to it straight away and saving everyone the hassle of having to actively convict you.  Remember: you WILL lose--if KL was interested in your story, they wouldn't have pressed charges in the first place.  "We prosecute shoplifters" does not mean "but not if they have a convincing story about simply forgetting to pay."  In order to be found not guilty, you'd have to prove someone else concealed the items in your personal property and you walked out totally unaware.  (And actually, they have heard that one too, shoplifters work in groups all the time)

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It's been a week.  OP should have called a lawyer the next morning.

Do not talk to the police without talking to a lawyer first.  You are not required to present any evidence against yourself.  Maybe Kaufland lost their tape.  Maybe the police lost their file.  Don't add to the pile of info stacked against you.

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