Relocating nearby to Munich

157 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, Metall said:

 

God no. All those seaview properties get beat up like Hell by the winter storms...

Exactly, it's horrible during half the year, very humid, loud from the wind, colder than in Germany. If you move 1km inland it gets better. 3 or 4km inland and it can be 10ºC warmer, less windy, and no humidity. Even in the summer, my hometown rarely goes above 28ºC near the sea.

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14 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

 

Porto and Lisbon are getting very expensive because of foreign moving in (like in Munich) but also because of the fucking hipsters that rather pay a shitty apartment for 40 years than dare to tell all friends they live outside the city.

 

 

Get used to it, Porto is the new-Berlin.  And hipsters do not buy, they share-rent.

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So where's your patch in Portugal Mike? Just out of curiosity... care to drop a name?

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If Porto follows Berlin then land prices in the commuter belt will quadruple over the coming years as the "pioneers" move out of the city to build houses with gardens to be replaced by new arrivals in the city proper. 

 

You see some really strange dynamics at play then. Our town in Havelland is composed of 95% detached houses. So the few apartments here are now quite expensive because they are rare. People buy or build a house, have kids then perhaps the marriage doesn't work out (amazingly from our house we can see three houses where this happened within months of house completion) and now need two smaller flats, but there are none available. The kids are in school here, so the parents feel tied to the town. Also you see grandparents perhaps moving in to a flat to be near the children and grandchildren, perhaps after their spouse has passed.

 

The short supply then forces prices way up. 

 

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WTF has Porto got to do with Berlin? You know the answer haha.

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1 hour ago, optimista said:

So where's your patch in Portugal Mike? Just out of curiosity... care to drop a name?

One option is a few km (15-70km) north of Porto. A few nice towns near the coastline.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3943743,-8.750363,10.81z

 

You just need to find the delicate balance between going too close to town centers or too close to farmland with pigfarms and so on. Life in those small towns is also great, but then your plot has to be really small.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Krieg said:

Get used to it, Porto is the new-Berlin.  And hipsters do not buy, they share-rent.

Yeah, going that way since 2010. When I studied there in the 1990's it was a decrepit, medieval, charming town/city. Everything was super cheap.

First Porto got expensive, then the nearby towns are getting expensive, then slowly it's expanding outwards. But still much cheaper than here.

The metro lines are quite good, so you can live far from Porto and reach the center in 30 minutes. So no real pressure to live inside the city.

 

Here is what 400-600.000€ buys you near the sea north of Porto (from Porto to Viana do Castelo), 250sqm minimum. Hint: click the map to see locations.

https://www.idealista.pt/areas/comprar-casas/com-preco-max_600000,preco-min_400000,tamanho-min_250,moradias,casa-rusticas/?shape=%28%28u%7Bs%7DFh%7Bhu%40dRocWtvgBk%7C%5Eby%40%7EoU_yx%40jgU_jp%40ngJ%29%29

 

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On 05/03/2021, 17:39:50, HH_Sailor said:

What happens when you retire?

Rent will be the same for another 30yrs until you pop your clogs...

 

Planned well, a property purchase will be paid off by then.

 

Still need savings to pay for repairs, don't forget!

 

The point is that if you do the calculations (and I have a little bit) then by the time you retire you could have enough money to buy a property. Therefore the result is the same. Rent now, invest your savings and when you are 67, you have €1M in the bank. Or...buy now and when you are 67 you have paid off your mortgage and have a property worth €1M.

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But that 1m€ house ( at todays market price) will probably cost you  1.75 million when you want to retire ....   

 

Buy now...   Sell your 1m€ house when you retire for 1.75m... then you have 750 grand to waste on renting a small flat coz the big house is too much work!!   

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8 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

But that 1m€ house ( at todays market price) will probably cost you  1.75 million when you want to retire ...   

 

Buy now...   Sell your 1m€ house when you retire for 1.75m... then you have 750 grand to waste on renting a small flat coz the big house is too much work!!   

 

You are talking to financial whizzzes.   I don't understand why they do not take a 1% mortgage and put it in super safe 3% ETFs.   It is a braindead plan, it is literally free money.

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6 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

But that 1m€ house ( at todays market price) will probably cost you  1.75 million when you want to retire ...   

 

Buy now...   Sell your 1m€ house when you retire for 1.75m... then you have 750 grand to waste on renting a small flat coz the big house is too much work!!   

 

Then just change my number to €1.75M. The numbers can work out.

 

1 hour ago, theGman said:

Rent now, invest your savings and when you are 67, you have €1.75M in the bank. Or...buy now (for €1M) and when you are 67 you have paid off your mortgage and have a property worth €1.75M.

 

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2 minutes ago, Krieg said:

You are talking to financial whizzzes.   I don't understand why they do not take a 1% mortgage and put it in super safe 3% ETFs.   It is a braindead plan, it is literally free money.

 

Sure, why not? Assuming you can get a mortgage. Borrow to invest is nothing new.

 

Don't get me wrong, I won't do this. I am not a financial whiz. I've laid out my position. I would like to buy, but where I am now, I can't afford to. So what should I do?

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Just now, theGman said:

 

Sure, why not? Assuming you can get a mortgage. Borrow to invest is nothing new.

 

Because someone here has been telling us for years that buying is bad and debt is horribly bad.

 

Just now, theGman said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I won't do this. I am not a financial whiz. I've laid out my position. I would like to buy, but where I am now, I can't afford to. So what should I do?

 

I don't know man, you sound like a reasonable guy and of course I do not know your life better than yourself.  But if you really wanted to buy you could compromise, that's what most of us did.  We do not live in the palace we dreamed, but we accepted our fate and tried to do the best out of it.    

 

I had a colleague who "looked" for a house literally for 20 years and never bought anything and then he decided he was too old to buy.   Every property they saw had a problem and it seems nothing could be fixed to what they wanted.   Now he still rents and apartment and pays 1400 EUR for a 2 bedrooms flat, far as hell from the city.  By now he could have paid whatever if he would have settled with something.   But who knows?  maybe he was happier all those 20 years in his rented flat.   Different people think different.   Maybe your decisions are the best for you and you will be happier in the place you are.

 

Another bit to consider is if you are going to depend on your German pension, they are actually quite low.  To me it would be a 40% downgrade from my salary if I ever reach the age of pension.   So a huge rent like that would be a big pain.

 

And people talk about the "freedom" of being a renter, that you could move any day you want and they won't be attached to their property.   But they forget the big difference in the prices between an old and a new contract.   You may be happy with your 800 EUR rent but if you move you may have to pay more than double.   While a person who owns a property can sell it and buy a new one and upgrade or downgrade with more freedom.

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25 minutes ago, theGman said:

I would like to buy, but where I am now, I can't afford to. So what should I do?

Buy property as an investment  where you can afford it. E.g. I´m currently trying to sell a studio flat in Wilster 60 km (North of Hamburg) rented out for € 290/month + € 110 utilities for € 69000.- . Currently an 80% mortgage with 1.38% interest rate fixed until it will be paid off (29,75 years) will cost you € 187,68/month, leaving you with a surplus of € 53,32/month from day one after mortgage and "Hausgeld" are paid and €20/month kept back for repairs. That´s a 4.6% yield on the € 13800.- you´d have to invest upfront (and a 20% yield once the mortgage is paid off, assuming you never raise the rent in those 29,75 years). Tax benefits not included in the calculation.

example mortgage.png

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6 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Because someone here has been telling us for years that buying is bad and debt is horribly bad.

 

 

I don't know man, you sound like a reasonable guy and of course I do not know your life better than yourself.  But if you really wanted to buy you could compromise, that's what most of us did.  We do not live in the palace we dreamed, but we accepted our fate and tried to do the best out of it.    

 

I had a colleague who "looked" for a house literally for 20 years and never bought anything and then he decided he was too old to buy.   Every property they saw had a problem and it seems nothing could be fixed to what they wanted.   Now he still rents and apartment and pays 1400 EUR for a 2 bedrooms flat, far as hell from the city.  By now he could have paid whatever if he would have settled with something.   But who knows?  maybe he was happier all those 20 years in his rented flat.   Different people think different.   Maybe your decisions are the best for you and you will be happier in the place you are.

 

Another bit to consider is if you are going to depend on your German pension, they are actually quite low.  To me it would be a 40% downgrade from my salary if I ever reach the age of pension.   So a huge rent like that would be a big pain.

 

And people talk about the "freedom" of being a renter, that you could move any day you want and they won't be attached to their property.   But they forget the big difference in the prices between an old and a new contract.   You may be happy with your 800 EUR rent but if you move you may have to pay more than double.   While a person who owns a property can sell it and buy a new one and upgrade or downgrade with more freedom.

Some people wander through life (not talking about anyone here) never letting go of their expectations.

I know a guy who went around and looked at a lot of flats when his family were looking to move, all turned down by his wife as they didn't fit what she wanted.

Not only did they end up moving to a flat near to where they lived (which had a few of those problem she used to dismiss the others), they ended up moving to the area some of the other flats were in. 

Of course, the rents had gone up and they were paying 40% more than long term renters. 

 

This isn't a disney movie, the chances you will find that dream property (even if you are really rich), that one that hits everything you want and no negatives, is very slim.

 

You end up renting or buying the one you found that you like and can live in. The one that doesn't hit you with a 'why did we take this one' feeling every morning.

 

However, you make your choice and you go with it.

 

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Because someone here has been telling us for years that buying is bad and debt is horribly bad.

 

I'm not Mike. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate. It's not for me and I wouldn't recommend it. But it can be done.

 

Quote

 

I don't know man, you sound like a reasonable guy and of course I do not know your life better than yourself.  But if you really wanted to buy you could compromise, that's what most of us did.  We do not live in the palace we dreamed, but we accepted our fate and tried to do the best out of it.    

 

I had a colleague who "looked" for a house literally for 20 years and never bought anything and then he decided he was too old to buy.   Every property they saw had a problem and it seems nothing could be fixed to what they wanted.   Now he still rents and apartment and pays 1400 EUR for a 2 bedrooms flat, far as hell from the city.  By now he could have paid whatever if he would have settled with something.   But who knows?  maybe he was happier all those 20 years in his rented flat.   Different people think different.   Maybe your decisions are the best for you and you will be happier in the place you are.

 

Another bit to consider is if you are going to depend on your German pension, they are actually quite low.  To me it would be a 40% downgrade from my salary if I ever reach the age of pension.   So a huge rent like that would be a big pain.

 

And people talk about the "freedom" of being a renter, that you could move any day you want and they won't be attached to their property.   But they forget the big difference in the prices between an old and a new contract.   You may be happy with your 800 EUR rent but if you move you may have to pay more than double.   While a person who owns a property can sell it and buy a new one and upgrade or downgrade with more freedom.

 

Reminder, this thread is about Munich. It's probably a different situation to most of the rest of the country.

 

Just to reiterate. Indeed I would like to buy. And indeed, we could leave Munich and we could buy. Is it worth it though? Should we really uproot our lives so that we could buy a property instead of rent? It's something we have been discussing for years (like I said in my first post, I come from a buying mindset). In the meantime, we have been renting and investing the rest. I have seen our investment grow and finally, after many years, I am slowly starting to see that it is possible to achieve the ultimate retirement goal by renting and investing as opposed to buying.

 

My point is that buying isn't the only answer. But...you have to be on top of your game if you're not buying. I have multiple pensions. Diversified investments. It's not for everyone. Maybe it's not for me in a few years time. But I cannot afford a downpayment in Munich so either I move or I rent. For now we are choosing the later. Let's see going forward...

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15 minutes ago, jeba said:

Buy property as an investment  where you can afford it. E.g. I´m currently trying to sell a studio flat in Wilster 60 km (North of Hamburg) rented out for € 290/month + € 110 utilities for € 69000.- . Currently an 80% mortgage with 1.38% interest rate fixed until it will be paid off (29,75 years) will cost you € 187,68/month, leaving you with a surplus of € 53,32/month from day one after mortgage and "Hausgeld" are paid and €20/month kept back for repairs. That´s a 4.6% yield on the € 13800.- you´d have to invest upfront (and a 20% yield once the mortgage is paid off, assuming you never raise the rent in those 29,75 years). Tax benefits not included in the calculation.

example mortgage.png

 

Absolutely. This is also a possibility for us.

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Well I think you've answered your own question - you have made your current plan work - no point leaving a good situation simply so you can afford to buy - it makes no sense.

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2 minutes ago, theGman said:

In the meantime, we have been renting and investing the rest. I have seen our investment grow and finally, after many years, I am slowly starting to see that it is possible to achieve the ultimate retirement goal buy renting and investing as opposed to buying.

 

My point is that buying isn't the only answer. But...you have to be on top of your game if you're not buying. I have multiple pensions. Diversified investments. It's not for everyone. Maybe it's not for me in a few years time. 

 

If you have 420 EUR you won't miss and you do not have any cryptos, buy exactly 0.01 BTC and keep it safe and forget about it.   In 10 years we will be drinking piña coladas somewhere in the Caribbean.  Or not. 

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2 hours ago, theGman said:

by the time you retire you could have enough money to buy a property. Therefore the result is the same. Rent now, invest your savings and when you are 67, you have €1M in the bank.

 

Which you will need to live from. With a mil, you can pay your rent from your dividends. Or pay it from your pension and live off of the dividends.

 

What do you live from if you dump your life savings in a house? As was said, German pensions are crap.

 

 

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