Relocating nearby to Munich

157 posts in this topic

Just now, RenegadeFurther said:

That is just rubbish. The interest rate is fixed for an x period of time.

 

After the fixed period is over the bank will make you another offer. 


This period of time can and should be 20 years or more. So, decades.

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44 minutes ago, karin_brenig said:

 

I see your dilemma... but, speaking from recent personal experience, I can tell you: 0% down is totally possible. 

 

Our house (250m² Doppelhaushälfte, with 330m² back yard, and 56m² Einliegerwohnung to create a small income stream and offset the cost of our purchase) is located 26km outside of Munich. It cost (all related closing cost and taxes included) less than €1m. We had absolutely nothing saved up - because we just moved from the US back to Germany - but found a lender willing to work with us. 

 

I'm not saying it was "easy", and everybody's situation is different - so you may not be in a position to get the same results now. But you can always make an assessment of your financials and come up with a plan, if you have a goal of home ownership. Find a good professional financial advisor, and explain your goals to them. Align your life with that goal. What kind of income do you need, to be attractive to lenders? Get the job that supplies it! What other assets do you have? Use them as collateral! How old are you? Start as early as possible!

 

...I can already feel the Tsunami coming... <<duck and take cover>> ...under my desk in my (very own) home office...

 

I've heard form a number of people that 0% is possible, but never from someone actually in Munich and in the last few years. Sorry, for us 26km away is too far. By that point we'll just leave Bavaria altogether...an option that remains on the cards for us as long as the kid is still young enough.

 

Admittedly though, until I get off my arse and actually ask a bank what is possible, then it's all speculation, maybe 0% is possible for us. But as I say, my motivation to home-own is dwindling. It looks as though within 5 years we could indeed have enough for that 20% downpayment, but by the time we get there, I can imagine preferring to leave the investments growing as they are.

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10 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

That is just rubbish. The interest rate is fixed for an x period of time.

 

After the fixed period is over the bank will make you another offer. 

 

This would only happen if you plan your mortgage with low Tilgung and at the end of the credit there is an unpaid balance.  And since typical mortgages are for 10, 20 or 30 years period, the interest rate stays indeed unchanged for decades.

 

But I can understand that PAYING back a giant mortgage like that is not easy, that's why from the beginning I mentioned that buying a palace as your first house might be complicated.  

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10 minutes ago, mtbiking said:

This period of time can and should be 20 years or more. So, decades.

12 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

The interest rate is fixed for an x period of time.

 

 

Yes - and negotiating fixed rates which are really low for a period of decades is a pretty special place to be. I vaguely remember being a kid and much discussion about interest rates having leapt. A quick google suggests that might have been the hike to 17% in 1979 :o imagine :mellow:

 

Ours is just over 1% for 10 years, as I remember, and we chose that short timescale because it is not a large mortgage - as mtbiking has said, longer would be more advantageous.

 

All of that being said, there are still multiple personal reasons for rent vs buy, and no-one's maths is exactly the same.... 

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11 hours ago, mtbiking said:


i think I said it already, you have an exceedingly nice landlord bordering on naive or something. His mietzins is extremely low, even for here and honestly, in his shoes I’d sell right away. In comparison, I’m getting almost double rendite for my property in Munich even without increasing the rent in the last four years. It could be more if I wanted. People wanting to rent a house costing 1.5 or more million usually pay over €3000/month for the privilege.

 

 

1 hour ago, Krieg said:

A 2 million EUR place rented out for 2k a month does not represent the current market.  You can continue enjoying your bargain.  But while you did that the prices skyrocketed and the train is leaving.

Not really, I visited 5 houses in the same neighborhood, all new, +/- same price of rent per sqm. It's a hidden gem, but took me 7 months to find it. What I realized was that people had no time to wait for opportunities and they were all looking at the same places.

Other people prize having no car and walking down to the bakery. I can't do that, but TBH, when I was living in such place, I never did it. So I am way more flexible in places to pick.

As an example, I already had some friends over that said that they would never live here. One because the wife refuses to live in a house (some weird safety concern) and another because there were no bakeries around and it had no vibe. Both lived in Schwabing. I hate schwabing, would never live there.

 

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1 hour ago, kiplette said:

negotiating fixed rates which are really low for a period of decades is a pretty special place to be

The family who bought my property in 2019 is paying 1.8%, fixed for 30 years (when it will be fully paid). Nowadays you could probably get even cheaper rates.

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 

Oh man, you have ZERO understanding of German mortgages.   Once you sign your mortgage with a specific interest rate it stays like that until the end.   You even have the chance to renegotiate the mortgage after 10 years if the new market conditions are in your advantage.

What I understood is that longer mortgages fixed rates are much higher, therefore negating the advantage. Anyway, I've been debt free all my life and intend to continue like that.

 

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And 2 million EUR cost 20k to 30k in interest rate.  And you are paying 24k a year in rent.   So the difference it is not that extreme, even in your unusual renting conditions.

Well, I'm also not paying maintenance. And if the city decides to remodel the street, I don't have to pay for it.

Also, how many decades to fully pay it at that rate?

 

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And you do not need 20% downpayment to get the credit.  It is possible to get it easily with 10%.  Even 0% is possible but the interest rate might not be that good.

...and more debt... waking up debt free is great.

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But you have a rent to pay...  that is surely a debt.... 

 

To me, Debt free is no mortgage and no rent...   

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1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

What I understood is that longer mortgages fixed rates are much higher, therefore negating the advantage.

 

You understood wrong then.  Actually normally a short term mortgage is more expensive than a long term one.

 

1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

Anyway, I've been debt free all my life and intend to continue like that.

 

This is good, I plan to stay debt free.   But those damn low interest rates are tempting, the wife wants to buy another small apartment and rent it out, but for that we either take a new mortgage or wait a few years but then the prices would be even higher.  At the moment in Berlin is 5k to 6k m2 for new developments.

 

1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, you are only considering interests in those values right?

 

Yes, interest is the real cost of the money, as far as I see.    You are right that you have to maintain your property, pay land taxes, insurances, etc.  But it is the same with other things, like cars.  

 

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Everybody is assuming values will keep going up. What I'm seeing with Covid is that German companies are outsourcing more and more engineering jobs to other countries.

 

BMW just moved 1400 SW jobs to Portugal. Bosch has 3000 engineers there.

We had some talks last month with many Munich outsourcing companies and all said the same: they lost many contracts and have hundreds of engineers readily available.

If there is a place in Europe where unenmployment for SW developers is increasing, it's in Germany!

This, together with the EV threat, will stop the highly qualified influx. Daimler already said they will be a much smaller company in the future. BMW is either going bust or will have to merge with other automaker. MAN has same threat.

 

Robotaxi could in 5-10 years allow people longer commute, therefore hugely reducing real estate valuation in big cities. If it's not in 10 years, it's 15. But it's coming. You houses will not value up forever. The day you see a robotaxi on the street, SELL!

 

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and in those 15years... you will have invested 375 thousand euro in your landlord!   ( assuming you stay where you are...)

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What happens when you retire?

Rent will be the same for another 30yrs until you pop your clogs...

 

Planned well, a property purchase will be paid off by then.

 

Still need savings to pay for repairs, don't forget!

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7 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

 

 

Not really, I visited 5 houses in the same neighborhood, all new, +/- same price of rent per sqm. It's a hidden gem, but took me 7 months to find it. What I realized was that people had no time to wait for opportunities and they were all looking at the same places.

Other people prize having no car and walking down to the bakery. I can't do that, but TBH, when I was living in such place, I never did it. So I am way more flexible in places to pick.

As an example, I already had some friends over that said that they would never live here. One because the wife refuses to live in a house (some weird safety concern) and another because there were no bakeries around and it had no vibe. Both lived in Schwabing. I hate schwabing, would never live there.

 


 

yeah, but that doesn’t change the math. If you’re paying say €2100 for a €1800,000 house, then your landlord gets 1.4% bruttorendite. That’s too low for Munich, he should sell and I would. If he doesn’t then that’s obviously good for you! Usually those houses are sold and the new owner offers a compensation to the Mieter to get out sooner than later with Eigenbedarf.

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4 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

 

What happens when you retire?

 

 

His investments will pay for a property in Portugal.

 

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3 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Not sure what investments you think he has?

 

Braun Hair dryers...   

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2 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Not sure what investments you think he has?

 

Honestly I neither know nor care, but that is the simple plan he has previously outlined - Portugal allowing for a bigger better property with a better climate and food and almost everything else, essentially.

 

Seems fair enough to me - I would just be renting somewhere less expensive right now, but that really is horses for courses.

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4 hours ago, HH_Sailor said:

What happens when you retire?

 

3 hours ago, kiplette said:

His investments will pay for a property in Portugal.

 

Exactly.

Here are some examples:

https://www.idealhomesportugal.com/grid/1/0/2/-/-1/-1/-1/2d_5072616961206461204c757a2d2d4c61676f73/-?gclid=Cj0KCQiAyoeCBhCTARIsAOfpKxi0PaiI-s6N85SAZ8RU59vMUZowQBXSZKz5ww-e0K0y6skX7s9gHHcaAmYlEALw_wcB

 

For those who were brave enough to click the link, sorry for destroying your dream of a German retirement :D

 

For the price of my house in Germany, I can buy a luxury villa in Portugal, buy a 42 ft. sailing boat, spend 10 years sailing around the med and Atlantic and buy two Teslas. So long suckers! :D:D

 

 

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12 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

For the price of my house in Germany, I can buy a luxury villa in Portugal, buy a 42 ft. sailing boat, spend 10 years sailing around the med and Atlantic and buy two Teslas.

But will you get a mortage on your sailing boat and your Teslas as easily? Or are you talking about 2 Tesla shares?:lol:

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I dont know what is he talking about.. but I know where he is talking out of....

 

If Portugal is soo gooood and soooo cheap, Why does he live in Dull Deutschland? 

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