Relocating nearby to Munich

157 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Krieg said:

Your math is so good that includes knowing the future.
 

 

It is probably the same reason why he hates Bitcoin with all his heart.   The funny thing is he continues spitting his hate but the Bitcoin train has not yet stopped, he could have boarded it any time in all these years of hate.

 

Well on that one I can indeed predict the future and for the moment just collecting a lot of "I told you so memes" :D

 

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29 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Your decision to rent a better house than the one you could afford to buy.  But it is a PREFERENCE and no indication of bad or good business decisions.

 

Exactly this yet we renters are perceived as stupid idiots to some on here. 

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2 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

Exactly this yet we renters are perceived as stupid idiots to some on here. 

As I always say, you make your choice and take your chances.

Unless you own property, rent that out and then rent another flat etc. From what i've been told that brings some nice tax benefits etc.

 

 

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6 hours ago, fraufruit said:

Exactly this yet we renters are perceived as stupid idiots to some on here. 

It's hard to get off the mindset that owning a house is always, always better. Most of us were educated to think like that.

In my case, I can't afford to buy the house I can afford to rent. And if I had to downgrade, I would just give up and go back to Portugal.

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18 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

It's hard to get off the mindset that owning a house is always, always better. Most of us were educated to think like that.

In my case, I can't afford to buy the house I can afford to rent. And if I had to downgrade, I would just give up and go back to Portugal.

 

I am also stuck in this mindset. But I'm slowly coming around. We also cannot afford to buy the place we live in (not even close), so we have no choice, we pay rent and invest whatever is left over. And actually, seeing this working is slowly changing my mind. I can see it now. The only issue that I still have is not living in a place that is my own. It would be nice to have the freedom to do whatever I want with the place. But, that being said, it's balanced by not having to worry about any problems occurring, that's the landlords problem.

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1 minute ago, theGman said:

The only issue that I still have is not living in a place that is my own. It would be nice to have the freedom to do whatever I want with the place. But, that being said, it's balanced by not having to worry about any problems occurring, that's the landlords problem.

I have a very nice landlord. What I have been doing is I make agreements with him for improvements. Example: I bought a water decalcifier at my expenses. He paid nothing. If I leave after 12 years, it's his. If I leave before, he pays me proportionally to the time I was there.

Perhaps you can make such arrangements too.

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With interest rate that low, how can you not afford to buy where you rent? except if you live in a palace.  A 500k house will cost around 5k to 7.5k in interest a year, you will pay much more renting it.   If you tell me "I do not want to take the risk of the price going down" then I can understand.  Or "I think I can make more profit with that money in other investments".   But I can't afford is a stretch at the moment, or maybe you live in areas with weird rent-price ratio, or you have very old renting contracts..   We are very close to banks CHARGING you for keeping your money with them.

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8 minutes ago, Krieg said:

With interest rate that low, how can you not afford to buy where you rent? except if you live in a palace.  A 500k house will cost around 5k to 7.5k in interest a year, you will pay much more renting it.   If you tell me "I do not want to take the risk of the price going down" then I can understand.  Or "I think I can make more profit with that money in other investments".   But I can't afford is a stretch at the moment, or maybe you live in areas with weird rent-price ratio, or you have very old renting contracts..   We are very close to banks CHARGING you for keeping your money with them.

We moved around 8 years ago and again last year.

Before he first move I was looking buying, also last year (when we did buy) and even though this was al 6 years apart, the price/interest rate (each time) caused still came out at about 30% on top of what you borrowed over the life of the mortgage.

 

This is flat mind, borrow 100% and never pay anything extra, just the basic payment each year.

Each way, the bank made roughly the same amount of cash. Could be just coincidence, since we moved last time I have not bothered to keep much of an eye on the market.

 

Our biggest critics regarding moving were neighbours i had actually considered kind of friends. At the very least, good friendly neighbours etc.

I'd mentioned buying a few times and they were quite vocal in saying how stupid it was etc. my view is (as said before here), you make your choice and take your chance, but they always went out of their way to dissuade us  from buying. So while we were looking this time we didn't tell anyone.

Seems to have seriously harmed the relationship between us all. Another source of annoyance for me was that even after we told them we were buying something, they kept talking to the Mrs about how silly it as, were we not too old, not enough time to pay off the mortgage, house prices will go down, we must be stupid etc. Not a word to me, just to the Mrs.

 

As said above, they all got a rent raise last year, we would now be paying about 150 less than we do now, hey are now paying what we paid. It's not a great property to live in as it has been left to slowly decline and should the landlord get his act together, then there will be two more flats up in the attic.

 

Bottom line, if you move, you might just not take your friends with you (well, not literally obviously, but some people change when you buy something). 

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13 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

What kind of friends ask or care if you own or rent?

 

I hope you have made new friends in your new place.

I think it is fine if friends ask or care if you own or rent. The only problem is if they judge you on your lifestyle or if the real reason for asking is envy etc.

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3 hours ago, Krieg said:

With interest rate that low, how can you not afford to buy where you rent?

Normal house payments are across decades. You can't expect rates to remain stable for that long.

 

Quote

 except if you live in a palace.

It's not a palace, it's almost half the size of my house in Portugal. Around 150sqm house. Granted, brand new, high quality.

 

Quote

  A 500k house will cost around 5k to 7.5k in interest a year, you will pay much more renting it.   If you tell me "I do not want to take the risk of the price going down" then I can understand.  Or "I think I can make more profit with that money in other investments".   But I can't afford is a stretch at the moment, or maybe you live in areas with weird rent-price ratio, or you have very old renting contracts..   We are very close to banks CHARGING you for keeping your money with them.

I think my current house would cost me, with notar, but not considering interests, between 1.8M€ and 2M€. A 20% downpayment would "cost" me upfront up to 400.000€.

I'm paying low 2000's rent. 400.000€ is 15 years worth of rent. The interest alone would be higher than my rent!

Makes no sense to buy! Nobody will have 3M€ to pay for it in 5 years, like some people claimed (50% increase) There is a limit, and I'm close to it.

I remember 3 years ago I was looking for apartments and there were around 50 people waiting on the building entrance, to see 3 apartments. All saw the 70sqm, most saw the 90sqm, and only 4 saw the 2500€/month 110sqm. There is a ceiling!

 

 

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2 hours ago, fraufruit said:

What kind of friends ask or care if you own or rent?

 

I hope you have made new friends in your new place.

We've made some new friends etc here but it is just strange the way they decided not to bother with us.

The Mrs called them up to say hello and suddenly they said they were off in to the garden with the other neighbours, we could go round if we wanted. I said maybe it was a late minute thing but the Mrs saw that one of them had posted a status (on something or other) the day before saying they were meeting with neighbours tomorrow etc.

 

It's maybe out of sight out of mind or they took it personally that we didn't tell them we were looking to buy something. That was always a risk situation for me because I knew they would always comment on how stupid it was and that would eventually have caused problems. I chatted with a colleague about it (as part of general chat about the move) and he said it sounded like either jealousy or they were annoyed at losing s as neighbours, or annoyed they didn't have the chance to talk us out of moving. Funny thing is they were very keen to see the place we bought and since they have ben here, we hardly hear from them.

 

I didn't understand it, in m home area we don't really give a crap if someone own or rents and if there is a house warming party good, if not, well no one cares.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Normal house payments are across decades. You can't expect rates to remain stable for that long.

 

It's not a palace, it's almost half the size of my house in Portugal. Around 150sqm house. Granted, brand new, high quality.

 

I think my current house would cost me, with notar, but not considering interests, between 1.8M€ and 2M€. A 20% downpayment would "cost" me upfront up to 400.000€.

I'm paying low 2000's rent. 400.000€ is 15 years worth of rent. The interest alone would be higher than my rent!

Makes no sense to buy! Nobody will have 3M€ to pay for it in 5 years, like some people claimed (50% increase) There is a limit, and I'm close to it.

I remember 3 years ago I was looking for apartments and there were around 50 people waiting on the building entrance, to see 3 apartments. All saw the 70sqm, most saw the 90sqm, and only 4 saw the 2500€/month 110sqm. There is a ceiling!

 

 


i think I said it already, you have an exceedingly nice landlord bordering on naive or something. His mietzins is extremely low, even for here and honestly, in his shoes I’d sell right away. In comparison, I’m getting almost double rendite for my property in Munich even without increasing the rent in the last four years. It could be more if I wanted. People wanting to rent a house costing 1.5 or more million usually pay over €3000/month for the privilege.

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15 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I have a very nice landlord. What I have been doing is I make agreements with him for improvements. Example: I bought a water decalcifier at my expenses. He paid nothing. If I leave after 12 years, it's his. If I leave before, he pays me proportionally to the time I was there.

Perhaps you can make such arrangements too.

That only goes so far. If you want expensive changes that´s where the bucket will stop. Which is why -against all economic reason- I decided to build in Cyprus even though I might not stay forever. Even though I have an excellent lease contract and invested quite a bit in a rented house 500 m from the beach (added carport, electric gate, upgraded electrical system, patio covers, PV facility etc.) and have a long-term lease contract (19 years remaining) which I can terminate unilaterally. But to my own surprise the mediterranean way of building has become more annoying to me than I can bear (no heat insulation, no underfloor heating, no soundproofing, rising dampness in the walls, no tightly sealing doors...).

7 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

There is a ceiling!


Yes, and it will come down due to demographics. Those currently buying are the children of the babyboomers. There will be no babyboomer children of family starting age around 10 years from now.

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17 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I have a very nice landlord. What I have been doing is I make agreements with him for improvements. Example: I bought a water decalcifier at my expenses. He paid nothing. If I leave after 12 years, it's his. If I leave before, he pays me proportionally to the time I was there.

Perhaps you can make such arrangements too.

 

My landlord is very nice too. He probably would be happy with such arrangements. But to be honest, having to agree with a landlord upfront just takes the fun out of any DIY projects for me, so I just don't bother.

 

13 hours ago, Krieg said:

With interest rate that low, how can you not afford to buy where you rent? except if you live in a palace.  A 500k house will cost around 5k to 7.5k in interest a year, you will pay much more renting it.   If you tell me "I do not want to take the risk of the price going down" then I can understand.  Or "I think I can make more profit with that money in other investments".   But I can't afford is a stretch at the moment, or maybe you live in areas with weird rent-price ratio, or you have very old renting contracts..   We are very close to banks CHARGING you for keeping your money with them.

 

Our apartment would cost around €800k to buy. As far as I know (and I am happy to be proven wrong on this), especially in Munich, it would be expected to make at least a 20% downpayment. So even excluding all other costs, we would need at least €160k in cash. We don't have that. And personally, I can't imagine investing in an apartment in an apartment block. I want at least a nice little terraced house or something, which in Munich is at least €1m, without even breaking a sweat.

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9 minutes ago, theGman said:

Our apartment would cost around €800k to buy. As far as I know (and I am happy to be proven wrong on this), especially in Munich, it would be expected to make at least a 20% downpayment. So even excluding all other costs, we would need at least €160k in cash. We don't have that. And personally, I can't imagine investing in an apartment in an apartment block. I want at least a nice little terraced house or something, which in Munich is at least €1m, without even breaking a sweat.

 

I see your dilemma... but, speaking from recent personal experience, I can tell you: 0% down is totally possible. 

 

Our house (250m² Doppelhaushälfte, with 330m² back yard, and 56m² Einliegerwohnung to create a small income stream and offset the cost of our purchase) is located 26km outside of Munich. It cost (all related closing cost and taxes included) less than €1m. We had absolutely nothing saved up - because we just moved from the US back to Germany - but found a lender willing to work with us. 

 

I'm not saying it was "easy", and everybody's situation is different - so you may not be in a position to get the same results now. But you can always make an assessment of your financials and come up with a plan, if you have a goal of home ownership. Find a good professional financial advisor, and explain your goals to them. Align your life with that goal. What kind of income do you need, to be attractive to lenders? Get the job that supplies it! What other assets do you have? Use them as collateral! How old are you? Start as early as possible!

 

....I can already feel the Tsunami coming.... <<duck and take cover>> ...under my desk in my (very own) home office....

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3 hours ago, jeba said:

Yes, and it will come down due to demographics. Those currently buying are the children of the babyboomers. There will be no babyboomer children of family starting age around 10 years from now.


only if the big cities in southern Germany lose international  attractiveness as a place to live and work in the world and specially within the EU - almost no one posting here is the child of German baby  boomers. I don’t see the forces driving  people to Germany slowing down, global warming refugees from Southern Europe and beyond will be one of them I fear. Have you seen the expected  impact of climate change on southern Mediterranean countries?

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11 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Normal house payments are across decades. You can't expect rates to remain stable for that long.

 

Oh man, you have ZERO understanding of German mortgages.   Once you sign your mortgage with a specific interest rate it stays like that until the end.   You even have the chance to renegotiate the mortgage after 10 years if the new market conditions are in your advantage.

 

11 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

 

It's not a palace, it's almost half the size of my house in Portugal. Around 150sqm house. Granted, brand new, high quality.

 

I think my current house would cost me, with notar, but not considering interests, between 1.8M€ and 2M€. A 20% downpayment would "cost" me upfront up to 400.000€.

I'm paying low 2000's rent. 400.000€ is 15 years worth of rent. The interest alone would be higher than my rent!

Makes no sense to buy! Nobody will have 3M€ to pay for it in 5 years, like some people claimed (50% increase) There is a limit, and I'm close to it.

I remember 3 years ago I was looking for apartments and there were around 50 people waiting on the building entrance, to see 3 apartments. All saw the 70sqm, most saw the 90sqm, and only 4 saw the 2500€/month 110sqm. There is a ceiling!

 

 

 

A 2 million EUR place rented out for 2k a month does not represent the current market.  You can continue enjoying your bargain.  But while you did that the prices skyrocketed and the train is leaving.

 

And 2 million EUR cost 20k to 30k in interest rate.  And you are paying 24k a year in rent.   So the difference it is not that extreme, even in your unusual renting conditions.

 

And you do not need 20% downpayment to get the credit.  It is possible to get it easily with 10%.  Even 0% is possible but the interest rate might not be that good.

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6 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Oh man, you have ZERO understanding of German mortgages.   Once you sign your mortgage with a specific interest rate it stays like that until the end.   You even have the chance to renegotiate the mortgage after 10 years if the new market conditions are in your advantage.

 

 

That is just rubbish. The interest rate is fixed for an x period of time.

 

After the fixed period is over the bank will make you another offer. 

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Kreig... you are wasting your breath...   If Mike doesnt have enough money... he wont buy... 

 

He is a "Hey look at what I have"  or "Look at what I can afford" type...

 

 

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