Shamima Begum UK terrorist stripped of citizenship, and the right age to begin sex education

132 posts in this topic

Interestingly what has happened to this woman would not be possible here.

 

The Grundgesetz forbids the German state from stripping a citizen of citizenship if the person would be left stateless, as has happened to Begum. 

 

I always understood that it was at the very least "frowned upon" by the international community to do this.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Interestingly what has happened to this woman would not be possible here.

 

The Grundgesetz forbids the German state from stripping a citizen of citizenship if the person would be left stateless, as has happened to Begum. 

 

I always understood that it was at the very least "frowned upon" by the international community to do this.

 

 

I guess the UK can argue that she hasn't become stateless as she still has  Bangladeshi citizenship. What I don'tunderstand though is why she would be such a security risk? Why not e.g. let her return to fight her case while in detention?

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4 hours ago, keith2011 said:

Wrong. the Home Office have revoked it and the courts have upheld that whether you like it or not!

 

This statement might be reasonable if it was only she that was being punished.

 

But the Kurds and Bangladeshis are also being punished. Why should the UK export it's trash to these dirt poor countries and expect them to take care of it for free.

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6 minutes ago, jeba said:

I guess the UK can argue that she hasn't become stateless as she still has  Bangladeshi citizenship. What I don'tunderstand though is why she would be such a security risk? Why not e.g. let her return to fight her case while in detention?

As far as I know, she doesn‘t have Bangladeshi citizenship - only a right to acquire it through her father.

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4 minutes ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

 

This statement might be reasonable if it was only she that was being punished.

 

But the Kurds and Bangladeshis are also being punished. Why should the UK export it's trash to these dirt poor countries and expect them to take care of it for free.

Well, the UK didn‘t export its trash- she and others  exported themselves. Obnoxious though this young woman is in her views and actions and lack of empathy for beheaded people, she was a minor at the time and should be brought back to the UK for trial. 

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5 minutes ago, john g. said:

As far as I know, she doesn‘t have Bangladeshi citizenship - only a right to acquire it through her father.

 

Right, she's never been registered for citizenship in Bangladesh and they've announced they wouldn't let her anyway.

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She is not a Bangladeshi citizen.

 

She was a minor when she left the UK.

 

She should return to the UK and face due process for any crimes she has committed.

 

People cheering the Home Secretary on should hope they never find themselves on the wrong end of such an arbitrary decision.

 

I had to Google the situation in my own country. In Ireland citizenship by birth cannot be stripped by the state under any circumstances. Once born a citizen of Ireland you can only lose it through renunciation (and even then you have an automatic right to have it reinstated on demand)

 

The state may revoke a certificate of naturalisation, thus stripping the citizenship of a naturalised person and interestingly the state did this quite recently to a naturalised Algerian convicted in the US of terrorist offences BUT the supreme court has just ruled against the state in this man's case and determined that the legislation used to strip him of his citizenship is unconstitutional and must be amended.

 

The supreme court says that no politician should have this right over people and that an independent decision making body should have responsibility in these matters.

 

Interesting how two supreme courts following English common law practices can come to such radically different conclusions in somewhat similar cases. Of course Ireland has a written constitution which makes a big difference. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Interesting how two supreme courts following English common law practices can come to such radically different conclusions in somewhat similar cases. Of course Ireland has a written constitution which makes a big difference. 

 

But as someone pointed out in an earlier post, the UK Supreme Court did not make a ruling on the citizenship issue. They just overruled a lower court regarding the rights of the Home Secretary with respect to the to denial of her entry to the UK!

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Once born a citizen of Ireland you can only lose it through renunciation (and even then you have an automatic right to have it reinstated on demand)

 Not sure how that works in the ROI but birth in the UK does not automatically qualify the child as a UK citizen, not sure whether that is the case here or not, maybe someone can confirm her actual status in that respect.

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2 hours ago, murphaph said:

 

The Grundgesetz forbids the German state from stripping a citizen of citizenship if the person would be left stateless, as has happened to Begum.

I always understood that it was at the very least "frowned upon" by the international community to do this.

 

2 hours ago, john g. said:

As far as I know, she doesn‘t have Bangladeshi citizenship - only a right to acquire it through her father.

 

And I think the latter is the the rather tenuous reasoning for stripping her of citizenship - the pretense she wouldn't be stateless if she tried.

No, I don't like Begum either, might need to go to jail in fact. In the UK.

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6 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 Not sure how that works in the ROI but birth in the UK does not automatically qualify the child as a UK citizen, not sure whether that is the case here or not, maybe someone can confirm her actual status in that respect.

 

She had UK citizenship through being born in the UK to a father having permanent resident status in the UK.

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18 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 Not sure how that works in the ROI but birth in the UK does not automatically qualify the child as a UK citizen, not sure whether that is the case here or not, maybe someone can confirm her actual status in that respect.

 

My step-brother was born in Scotland in 1964 and was able to get UK citizenship without a hitch later on, when he moved back as a teenager after living in Guyana, and now lives there; his parents were/are both Guyanese and never lived in the UK, they were on Long Leave at the time. I don't know if things have changed since then. Just my 2c for what they are worth.

 

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Citizenship law does change over time. UK citizenship law seems to have changed several times in the past few decades. 

 

Irish citizenship used to be granted to any child born on the island of Ireland but with the economic upturn people started arriving in Ireland heavily pregnant to ensure an Irish passport for their child (and usually the right to remain for the parents). The constitution was amended to remove what was seen as a loophole. A loophole nobody cared about while Ireland offered nothing to even its own people lol.

 

Personally I don't like that Ireland appears to have a two tier citizenship regime. Naturalised citizens can lose it but citizens by birth can't. Here in Germany I have exactly the same citizenship status as anyone born with German citizenship even though I acquired it last week.

 

Begum is now stateless. I don't even think Bangladesh is keen on giving her citizenship even if she had a claim on it. 

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2 hours ago, murphaph said:

Interestingly what has happened to this woman would not be possible here.

 

The Grundgesetz forbids the German state from stripping a citizen of citizenship if the person would be left stateless, as has happened to Begum. 

 

I always understood that it was at the very least "frowned upon" by the international community to do this.

 

 

I was said on UK TV that she could  not to be striped of citizenship, be she did not have another passport but they did it anyway

2 hours ago, john g. said:

As far as I know, she doesn‘t have Bangladeshi citizenship - only a right to acquire it through her father.

Maybe they would not accept her citizenship because for what she has done.

 

2 hours ago, LeonG said:

 

Right, she's never been registered for citizenship in Bangladesh and they've announced they wouldn't let her anyway.

Which means the UK is acting illegal, as the UK has are her stateless, which is against UK law. She must have a good case to appeal

 

Seems to me so has a right to a UK passport

 

Cannot make my mind up What should happen to her she was 15  when she left the uk, basically a child, but she may have done t er re able things while she was out there

 

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7 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Begum is now stateless. I don't even think Bangladesh is keen on giving her citizenship even if she had a claim on it. 

 

Right, they have even stated that they wont.  Also according to https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47312207 her time to request citizenship there would have lapsed by now.

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18 minutes ago, yesterday said:

I was said on UK TV that she could  not to be striped of citizenship, be she did not have another passport but they did it anyway

Maybe they would not accept her citizenship because for what she has done.

 

Which means the UK is acting illegal, as the UK has are her stateless, which is against UK law. She must have a good case to appeal

 

Seems to me so has a right to a UK passport

 

Cannot make my mind up What should happen to her she was 15  when she left the uk, basically a child, but she may have done t er re able things while she was out there

 

Get the groomers ! 

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1 hour ago, john g. said:

Get the groomers ! 

What?...

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