Shamima Begum UK terrorist stripped of citizenship, and the right age to begin sex education

132 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, optimista said:

Thank God good sense has prevailed.

Agreed, but is that the end of it or is there still a possibility to appeal to the ECJ, post brexit?

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You have to wonder how far the UK is from requiring everyone to pledge allegiance to Boris Johnson and defend the glory of Brexit when you can be stripped of citizenship because Priti Pretel doesn't like your politicial beliefs.*

 

*In case Priti is listening I of course do believe Boris is Super and can't imagine anything better than Brexit.

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9 minutes ago, Dembo said:

You have to wonder how far the UK is from requiring everyone to pledge allegiance to Boris Johnson and defend the glory of Brexit when you can be stripped of citizenship because Priti Pretel doesn't like your politicial beliefs.*

 

*In case Priti is listening I of course do believe Boris is Super and can't imagine anything better than Brexit.

 

I think you will find that the majority of people in the UK and Europe don't like the "political beliefs" of IS and its followers!

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1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

I think you will find that the majority of people in the UK and Europe don't like the "political beliefs" of IS and its followers!

I find it strange that people like Adel Abdul Bari get to live in the UK and Begum not.  I find it hard to stomach that the much beleaguered Kurds end up being responsible for these foreign terrorists.

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52 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

I find it strange that people like Adel Abdul Bari get to live in the UK and Begum not.

I thought he had been extradited to the USA where he is now serving a 25 year sentence for his involvement in the US embassy bombing!

 

52 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

I find it hard to stomach that the much beleaguered Kurds end up being responsible for these foreign terrorists.

As I understand it she is entitled to a Bangladesh passport but they don't want here either and like the UK are happy to see her rotting in a hell run by the Kurds who most likely deserve more support from the west than they get.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

I thought he had been extradited to the USA where he is now serving a 25 year sentence for his involvement in the US embassy bombing!

He is back in UK.

 

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5 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

As I understand it she is entitled to a Bangladesh passport but they don't want here either and like the UK are happy to see her rotting in a hell run by the Kurds who most likely deserve more support from the west than they get.

Just as she is entitled to a UK passport.   The Kurds have enough problems.

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1 minute ago, snowingagain said:

Just as she is entitled to a UK passport.

Wrong. the Home Office have revoked it and the courts have upheld that whether you like it or not!

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1 minute ago, keith2011 said:

Wrong. the Home Office have revoked it and the courts have upheld that whether you like it or not!

Not what I meant.  Bangladeshi also say she is not "entitled".  Nothing to do with what I like or not, of course.  Weird comment.  But  UK courts have not decided anything to do with legality of Home Office revoking her citizenship.  Only that in the mean time she cannot return.  

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55 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Ok, this has clarified it for me.

 

 

I can out that on the box with the 'expat/immigrant' topic.

 

If we hold the nation state as being worth anything, then it has to take responsibility for it's citizens who commit crimes abroad.

I do not like the idea of letting people who have been in other countries as members of terrorist organizations. Although that has it's issues, IS are pretty easy, what lands on that list for any particular country depends on the political of said country. 

Imagine if there had been an uprising in Iraq to push the country towards democracy and remove Sadam, and the UK designated it as a terrorist organization but UK citizens went over to fight. Not so easy, especially as we eventually sent military forces over there to remove him. 

It's not an easy situation as politics are involved.

 

Bottom line for me is as above, for the nation state to be mean anything it has to take responsibility for it's citizens. That goes both ways, they should also give a crap about people who get in to difficult abroad when thy haven't actually done anything.

Having said that, I'm not keen on a potential terrorist being let in the country. 

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6 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

Having said that, I'm not keen on a potential terrorist being let in the country. 

 She may have ben a "potential terrorist" when she left the UK but by joining IS "potential" no longer applies!

 

22 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

But  UK courts have not decided anything to do with legality of Home Office revoking her citizenship.  Only that in the mean time she cannot return.  

By not allowing here to return to appeal the decision it pretty much amounts to the same thing!

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1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

 She may have ben a "potential terrorist" when she left the UK but by joining IS "potential" no longer applies!

That really depends doesn't it.

Has she been convicted of terrorist offences as yet?

Does being part of an organization defined as a terrorist one, automatically mean a person is legally defined as a terrorist?

 

If not, then she is a potential terrorist. It is hair splitting but this is legal stuff and hairs can be split very thin at times. 

 

She is being denied the right to return as she joined a terrorist organization, as yet, she has not been convicted of anything in a UK court. We'd have to let her back in to do that, right?

 

Now, if people want to discus what makes a person a terrorist or not, I would say she is one as she joined IS, but legally, she hasn't been tried or convicted. Last I looked, that is what we did, we took terrorists (how long did we fight to get the Lockerby terrorists brought to the UK for trial) and put them on trial here and if found guilty, we locked them up.

 

Why the change?

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33 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

Last I looked, that is what we did, we took terrorists (how long did we fight to get the Lockerby terrorists brought to the UK for trial) and put them on trial here and if found guilty, we locked them up.

 

Why the change?

Because Brexit? Wanting to show the world "how it's done" in the UK?

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2 hours ago, cb6dba said:

Bottom line for me is as above, for the nation state to be mean anything it has to take responsibility for it's citizens. That goes both ways, they should also give a crap about people who get in to difficult abroad when thy haven't actually done anything.

Having said that, I'm not keen on a potential terrorist being let in the country. 

 

I can understand not wanting to let her back in the country but I think it was totally double standard to strip her of UK citizenship and would not have happened if she were white.  She was born in the UK, she grew up in the UK, she radicalized while in the UK, she never lived in Bangladesh and never held a Bangladesh passport.

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Sajid Javid was the Home Secretary at the time, not a traditional „ WASP „...Leon. But I don‘t think anyone born in the UK should have their nationality stripped of them, whether a likeable person or not.

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1 hour ago, LeonG said:

 

I can understand not wanting to let her back in the country but I think it was totally double standard to strip her of UK citizenship and would not have happened if she were white.  She was born in the UK, she grew up in the UK, she radicalized while in the UK, she never lived in Bangladesh and never held a Bangladesh passport.

 

Jack Letts lost his UK citizenship too. 

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