Neu eingebürgert. Pass oder Perso oder beides?

[murphaph 9,713]

So I have my appointment to swear my oath and collect my Einbürgerungsurkunde next week. In the end it moved along quite quickly so I haven't given any thought to my identity document(s) afterwards.

 

I currently possess an Irish passport (9.5 years left) and a passport card (valid in Europe like a national ID card basically, valid for another 4.5 years)

 

Is there actually any point in getting the German passport at this stage (or ever)? The Perso seems to offer a lot of convenience (no need for current Meldebescheinigung to register a vehicle for example) whereas the passport only allows travel to a handful of extra countries visa free over the Irish one. Probably places I won't be visiting any time soon either.

 

Any thoughts? Any obvious benefits of the passport that I'm missing?

[cb6dba 7,318]

I got both and it may be an idea to do that while you are in the middle of it all.

The people who dealt with my case said it's a good idea to have a passport from each country you can. I guess as they deal with what can go wring when people are travelling all over the world etc.

[pappnase 2,580]

I got both because my UK passport was near expiry*.

When your Irish one runs out it might be easier/and or cheaper to get the German one, but otherwise I can't really see any reason why I would need 2 passports, unless I was traveling somewhere where a visa was needed for one nationality but not the other.

 

I've not bothered to renew my UK passport and after the stuff some folk posted on another thread I may never bother.

Agree 100% about the Perso though, get one of those anyway cos it's a handy document to have in all sorts of circumstances.

 

Oh and congratulations and welcome to the club :).

 

*and because I am a little child inside who was excited to get new documents.

[murphaph 9,713]

Thanks folks. Much appreciated.

 

The Irish passport is only a tenner more expensive than the German one and you don't even need to leave your house to renew it. You take a selfie from within the app for the picture part. It also arrives in about 1 week from Dublin. An Irish passport is more useful in the UK than a German one, so I'm minded to always keep a current Irish passport regardless of what I do with the German to one. Irish citizens are not aliens under UK law.

 

When it comes to consular assistance of persons with multiple citizenships, does it matter which passport was used to enter the country in which the person seeks said assistance? I mean Germany has a far more developed consular network than Ireland. There are many countries where Germany has a permanent representation while Ireland does not. Can I travel on my Irish passport to some far flung corner of the world but still claim consular protection or whatever at the local German consulate? I would presumably have my Personalausweis with me as proof of citizenship.

[HH_Sailor 3,547]

2nd passport is needed should you cross into countries that are mutually exclusive. 

 

Seem to remember that you couldn't get into Jordan if you had Israel stamped in your passport. (Maybe allowed these days)

 

If that's not your thing, then stick with one.

[murphaph 9,713]

Interesting observation HH. I believe that Israel stopped stamping passports because of this. 

 

On the subject of the middle East/security though, I wonder would my Irish passport not be that little bit "safer" (non-NATO, neutral country with no troops on anything other than UN sanctioned peace keeping duties) than the German one...

 

For now I'll keep the €60 I reckon and stick with a single passport.

[karin_brenig 699]

hm? interesting (rather philosophical) question.

 

When I became a US-citizen in 2012, and was allowed to keep my German citizenship too, I felt a sense of deeply rooted connectedness to both of my countries. 
The way of demonstrating this feeling to the world was simple: carry two passports when I travel. 

For the US, US-citizens coming from abroad need a US passport, because there is technically no travel without a visa (Esta is just a visa in disguise).
Irish/German might not be a big difference as far as visa-free travel goes, if travel is the only reason you're asking.

 

Emotionally (just my opinion) this question has the same "flavor" as the question of whether or not you'd wear a wedding band after getting married. 

[murphaph 9,713]

I'm not particularly emotionally attached to either citizenship I have to say. If it was up to me we'd have long since abolished nation states but that's another debate. I'm pleased to be able to vote again in "big stuff" after all these years of only voting in local and European elections.

 

An Irish passport is only slightly less "powerful" than a German one when it comes to visa free travel. There are 3 or 4 Pacific Island nations that require a visa from Irish visitors but I'm unlikely to ever visit any of these in reality. A German passport is of course less useful than an Irish one in the UK these days, where being Irish is equivalent to being British (can't be denied entry, right to use NHS free of charge etc.). I'm much more likely to be at least transiting through the UK than visiting those Pacific Island nations so given there appears to be no real practical benefit to owning these two particular passports I'll just stick with the Irish passport book + card and the German Personalausweis combo.

[SohM 2]

I am non-EU citizen. After submitting my Einbürgerung application some months ago, yesterday I received a letter that my Einbürgerungsurkunde is ready for pick up in 2 weeks. I can't give up my non-EU citizenship and I want to take German Passport  (Reisepasses) definitely. Now my question is that if I can also take Personalausweis (German ID-card)? If so, should I apply first for the Personalausweis and then Reisepasses?

[pappnase 2,580]

Yes you can have a Perso and a passport.

You need the Perso, so apply for that first if you are only getting one thing.

If you want a passport as well, then you can apply for it at the same time or wait for a bit and apply for it when you need it for travel.

 

[gdc 16]

On 2/18/2021, 2:28:34, murphaph said:

Thanks folks. Much appreciated.

 

The Irish passport is only a tenner more expensive than the German one and you don't even need to leave your house to renew it. You take a selfie from within the app for the picture part. It also arrives in about 1 week from Dublin. An Irish passport is more useful in the UK than a German one, so I'm minded to always keep a current Irish passport regardless of what I do with the German to one. Irish citizens are not aliens under UK law.

 

When it comes to consular assistance of persons with multiple citizenships, does it matter which passport was used to enter the country in which the person seeks said assistance? I mean Germany has a far more developed consular network than Ireland. There are many countries where Germany has a permanent representation while Ireland does not. Can I travel on my Irish passport to some far flung corner of the world but still claim consular protection or whatever at the local German consulate? I would presumably have my Personalausweis with me as proof of citizenship.

 

To my understanding, the majority of countries require to enter and leave their jurisdiction with the same passport, and you should travel with both in case the information is brought up to their attention that you have two nationalities...

 

I'll guess that's irrelevant if you enter a country with X passport and you're in need of consular assistance with your Y nationality!

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

I would get a passport from each country definitely. Here's an example as to why.

 

My daughter's US passport expired last August. Her German passport expires this July (US valid for 5, German for 6). The US requires both parents to go to the consulate with the child to apply for the passport, or just one parent with an expensive notarized note from the second parent (no way). This is difficult due to schedules, and worse due to COVID and less availability of appointments. Second, all the appointments are before 9 am, and we can't drop of our son at KITA before 9, so we have to take him and we don't want to because of COVID (he touches EVERYTHING). So we have been postponing the appointment, and now the German passport will expire soon. For that we have been trying to make an appointment, but it has been difficult. For the Germans, one parent is sufficient with a note from the other parent; no notarization required. Still, the appointments have been few and far between. We also went once already, but the systems were down and they sent us home. We finally have another appointment for Monday. Let's see how it goes. We are traveling to Austria in July, and we want at least one valid passport for her (the wife's passport expires next month too, but she has a Perso). In any case, this trip would have been ok anyway without a valid passport for the child, but going to the US would have been impossible (though I just got an email from the consulate saying travel to the US on an expired passport is possible until the end of the year, but nevermind).

 

So, this is why a passport from each country would be very helpful, especially if the validity is decently staggered. Also try to stagger the validity of the Perso and passport, so for now maybe apply for the Perso and then maybe another time for the passport.

 

I know that the Irish are weird and only allow a passport card with a valid passport, and not as a standalone. I don't understand this.

 

Kudos to you that you are not nationalistic. I suppose nationalism is sort of necessary for the integrity  and survival of the country, but man does it lead to untold horrors in the name of the state.

[kiplette 8,677]

On 1.5.2021, 12:52:19, SohM said:

Now my question is that if I can also take Personalausweis (German ID-card)?

 

You have to have the Perso, you can choose about the Reisepass. So if you want the Reisepass, you need to get both. The Perso is a nice handy thing to have anyway.

[murphaph 9,713]

I am almost certain the possession of just a passport satisfies the requirement to possess an amtliches Lichtbild.

[murphaph 9,713]

kaffeemitmilch the Irish passport card is a super idea kneecapped by poor implementation. There is no good reason not to allow us to just order the card and there's no good reason why it is only valid for 5 years.

[bramble 9,588]

7 hours ago, murphaph said:

I am almost certain the possession of just a passport satisfies the requirement to possess an amtliches Lichtbild.

 

This seems to be correct - even though like kiplette I was also under the impression that as a German a Personalausweis  is a must. But you never stop learning.

https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/personalausweis-beantragen-kosten-fristen-und-bussgelder-das-sollten-sie-wissen/25302584.html

 

Quote

 

In principle, obligatory identification is compulsory in Germany. This means that persons over the age of 16 must have a valid identity card or passport - this is clearly stipulated in §1 of the Identity Card Act (PAuswG).

 

Every German citizen is required by law to be able to identify themselves. The document is normally issued to every German citizen when he or she reaches the age of sixteen - however, this can also be done earlier at the request of the parents. By law, however, you must have an identity card OR a valid passport by the age of sixteen. In the case of minors, the parents or legal representatives can apply for the identity card. If you have lost your identity card or it has expired, you should apply for a new one as soon as possible.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

 

[vronchen 420]

My understanding of the rules is that a german citizen is required to enter germany with a german passport if coming from outside the eu.

 

Also, if you do travel to some far flung corner of the world, I would register with "elefand" to make emergency assistance more smoothly.

[murphaph 9,713]

I would be surprised if a German citizen couldn't enter Germany with a Perso regardless of the origin of their flight. I'm pretty sure herself always shows her Perso at the German end. Ultimately as a German citizen they can't stop you once you can satisfy them as to your identity and a Perso definitely does this.

 

Edit: Confirmed on the Auswärtiges Amt website:

 

"Ich bin als Tourist in den USA und mein Reisepass wurde gestohlen. Wie kann ich nach Deutschland zurückreisen?

Die Rückreise von den USA nach Deutschland ist entweder mit einem deutschen Reisepass oder mit dem Personalausweis möglich (solange diese nicht länger als ein Jahr abgelaufen sind). Bitte erkundigen Sie sich bei Ihrer Airline, ob man Sie dort mit dem abgelaufenen Reisepass, bzw. dem Personalausweis mitnimmt."

 

So nobody will care as long as you have the Perso.

[kiplette 8,677]

On 28.5.2021, 08:09:15, bramble said:

 

This seems to be correct - even though like kiplette I was also under the impression that as a German a Personalausweis  is a must. But you never stop learning

 

Absolutely. There's a thing.

 

I am so certain that the letter we all got after our Einbürgerungsfeier told us to go with great alacrity and get ourselves a Perso and a Reisepass if we wanted. Funnily enough I chucked out a copy of that letter only last week so I can't check now, but I think we must have read it through our assumptions, as so often happens, because your link is clear enough. 

 

I think in SohM's situation I would still get the Perso. It is a much handier bit of kit to keep on you. A Reisepass is a bit of a faff.

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

On 5/28/2021, 12:20:54, murphaph said:

kaffeemitmilch the Irish passport card is a super idea kneecapped by poor implementation. There is no good reason not to allow us to just order the card and there's no good reason why it is only valid for 5 years.

Could it be because of the English-speaking fear of national identity cards? This way, they can explain away the card as just a supplement to a passport, and not an actual standalone de facto national ID. This is my impression. The five year thing, who knows.

 

The passport card is clearly a take on the US passport card, whose implementation was also half-arsed as there is no signature on it, which limits its validity. I think ICAO or IATA requires a signature for international air travel, else it could be used for countries in north and central America where Americans didn't require a passport even. One could even enter Canada and re-enter the US with an oral declaration of citizenship and any form of ID like a driver license.