Phone call from boss suggesting I should find a new job

66 posts in this topic

Ha. Yes the first couple of years in that job were pretty challenging then I settled into a decent routine, so then it was not a great challenge but it was challenging enough and it was a good job.

 

Now I don'T want to stay in a company where I am not wanted, but even less that that I don't want to be fired, if that's even possible.

 

The more I think about it the more I think screw them and I will make it as difficult as I can for them.

 

I have a meeting with the Betriebsrate today and am also considering getting advice from a layer and just footing the bill for the consultation myself. At least in that way the next time I talk with my boss I will be better informed

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7 minutes ago, jifff said:

Now I don'T want to stay in a company where I am not wanted, but even less that that I don't want to be fired, if that's even possible.

The more I think about it the more I think screw them and I will make it as difficult as I can for them.

 

I your case I would

1. try to find a new job

2. Contact a lawyer to find out, how much money the company should pay you

3. try to leave on good terms. You always meet twice. You never know whether you could need your boss in future.

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9 minutes ago, jifff said:

considering getting advice from a layer and just footing the bill for the consultation myself. At least in that way the next time I talk with my boss I will be better informed

 

...and you can throw around a few "my lawyer says this" and "my lawyer says that" culminating with "that's not what my lawyer said."

 

:)

 

 

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HEM is right, look for a new job, hell you may find a new job that pays better than what you have now and with better conditions - at least you will better understand the options if you lose your current job.

 

A lot depends on how much you want to keep this job

 

Also sometimes I have had bad/ in accurate  information from the  Betriebsrate , it difficult to believe but its happened to me. please go to a real lawyer and just pay it worth it and get year round insurance if you think you might need it. Take your contract of employment to the lawyer and try read it yourself, there maybe something in there that could help you

 

I am not a layer, but I find it difficult to believe a chat with your boss about you leaving has any legal basis, if the Boss was a real asshole, he could say the phone call was maybe last September, thing is, there has to be proof, I think.

 

yeah, an ex-girl was asked to leave her job by the boss, she did not have to according to the rules, but transferred somewhere else in that big company. She decided to move because once the boss asks you to leave, if you do not do it there are thing the boss can do to piss you off and make life harder if they want, and she did not want that to happen. A lot will depend on how strong you are, and how able you are to take stress from the boss. 

 

Some people do not like confrontation, but you have to decide the best way for you

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41 minutes ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

I your case I would

1. try to find a new job

2. Contact a lawyer to find out, how much money the company should pay you

3. try to leave on good terms. You always meet twice. You never know whether you could need your boss in future.

 

I would certainly demand a good severance package. I don't have direct experience in Germany but in Ireland, I went through a redundancy and those affected also got access to an Employment Consultant and could go to job interviews during their notice period. I'm not sure what is the norm in Germany, perhaps others could advise.

 

As for leaving on good terms, I think you have to make a judgement on this by how big or small the sector you are working in is. 

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This seems pretty sound advice to me...

 

1. try to find a new job

2. Contact a lawyer to find out, how much money the company should pay you

3. try to leave on good terms. You always meet twice. You never know whether you could need your boss in future.

 

I really like my colleagues and always had a pretty good relationship with my boss, however obviosuly I feel a bit different now.

 

I feel farily optimistic we could part on good terms but perhaps it's perhaps  to early to say. I am looking for a new job but to be realistic that could take quite some time.

 

I moved my family here for this job so I guess it has been quite a blow to loose the project I had

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Seriously it sounds like your ready to throw the towel in.

 You have had one conversion with your direct manager who is just testing the water. Why would you waste money on a lawyer at this stage nothing has happened, I would'nt have contacted the works council, its like your pushing it, to take it to the next level.

 

Just sit tight and do nothing and say nothing,  its not your move its the managers move. 

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I spoke with the works council today and am glad I did. It was informative and put my mind at ease a bit. Contacting a lawyer I will also probably do. It's not really about throwing in the towel, it's more about being as informed as possible so I know what position i'm in. If nothing eventuates and I have spent a couple of hundred euros then so be it. 

But I think your right about contacting my boss. I will probably sit tight until he contacts me again. But until then at least I am a fair bit more knowledgeable than I was regarding my position

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On 2/8/2021, 2:00:27, AnswerToLife42 said:

I your case I would

1. try to find a new job

2. Contact a lawyer to find out, how much money the company should pay you

3. try to leave on good terms. You always meet twice. You never know whether you could need your boss in future.

Don´t forget #4: asking what kind of golden handshake I´d get.

When the institute I was working for was closed due to a merger those of us who agreed to a golden handshake received almost double the compensation compared to those who tried to fight it. .

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On 2/8/2021, 12:14:34, karin_brenig said:

I also don't buy into this "overqualified and bored" as reason to leave a well paying, secure job that feeds a family. I've personally been in that position in every job I ever held after about two/three years of doing it. 

To me being "overqualified" means I have more than enough knowledge about the job, to be comfortably doing it with routine and precision.
And being "bored" means I don't have to deal with stressful surprises on a daily basis, so that I can sleep at night and pursue the many interests I have in my personal life outside of the job with full energy.

 

That's one way to spin it, and obviously context matters. In my mid-20s, I worked just about 2 years in a job I was overqualified and bored in. Nice job title, secure, 9-5, good experiences (at fist), decent pay, some great colleagues. I quit because after the first 6 months or so, it became mind-numbing and there wasn't much room for growth (of the kind I wanted). The thrills of routine and precision eluded me (I like to think the skills were down). My crystal ball thought it saw better things awaiting, and turns out it was right. I left and never regretted it, though at the time many around me thought I was crazy as it was a hard to get position. But I also had no kids then. :) If you're in your 50s, finding a nice pasture to graze on for your 9-5 can certainly be pretty plum.  

 

Sounds like OP has a plan. Milk every perk you can, but there's no hurry. If I were OP, I would also refuse further phone calls on the topic and insist on a paper (email) trail going forward.

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Just to sit on the fence and play devil's advocate....

 

I once worked somewhere and the boss came out of a meeting

and took a few of us for a walk around the block.

 

"you didn't here it from me, but you should start applying for jobs immediately

the company is going to be bankrupt very soon"

 

He wouldn't elaborate.

He didn't name names.

He just let a few of us know - up front.

 

The oddballs in the team found out using the official channels.

A handful of us had a week's advantage in getting our CVs together.

 

 

 

I hope you find a new job should you need one. Experience tells me it's 

often better that the one you'd like to hold onto.

 

 

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I would disagree, it sounds more like the OP's boss is trying to push out an older employee and keep the younger, cheaper ones.

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23 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

A handful of us had a week's advantage in getting our CVs together.

 

Its actually wise to keep your CV up to date at all times.  However, when there is no pressure...

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Yep I don't think I would answer any more spontaneous calls from my boss, but rather ask what he wants in the form of an email so at least then there is a record. I'm not particularly worried about it right now, after the initial shock I guess. Until there is anything more formal i'm just keeping my head down and getting on with my job. As a few people have pointed out his phone call was probably to test the water, but i'm not sure what he expected me to say really. It could be that the situation changes in the coming days or weeks.

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Many here like to start a fight and/or know what's going on in your boss's head, much less the company's.  Yet, you haven't really said what an acceptable and fair settlement would be...

I can't speak to Germany, but a close friend in the US filed a suit against her company for discrimination, went to court and 'won'.  I say 'won' because up to that time, she was in high demand and never had a problem finding a job.  But after the lawsuit (which is public record and searchable) she had one interview in the following year and took a significant pay and title cut.  Bottom line: she was a trouble maker and companies don't need trouble.  Winning a case does not win the war.  That case will follow her for the rest of her career.

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A few random musings:

I'm pretty sure Arbeitsgericht judgements are not public record. Having said that, people often believe that they can sue for a nice redundancy payment. This is incorrect. You can only sue to keep your job and if you lose and the company is allowed to fire you, they actually don't have to pay out more than about 2 weeks salary per year of service. Of course the threat of being sued may encourage them to make a better offer on the redundancy payment. A lawyer can be useful here as it shows intent to defend yourself.

 

I would only go to the Arbeitsgericht if I actually wanted to hold onto the job for dear life, otherwise I would determine a figure I would like to achieve and then tell them you'll sign a (carefully worded) Aufhebungsvertrag.

 

I would basically make sure I had legal insurance covering Arbeitsrecht and then I would sit tight and keep doing my job to the best if my ability until approached by the company formally and in writing. At that stage you can engage a lawyer to at least talk things over. We've used the same lawyer and same legal insurance for two cases. One was contract law to do with building work which was done below standard and one was Arbeitsrecht. The insurance company tried to decline indemnity on the contract law case (in the end our lawyer argued that they had to cover it which they did) but there was no attempt to decline the Arbeitsrecht thing and I actually asked the lawyer could we expect them to do so and he said "no, they virtually always cover that stuff without any complaints or queries". YMMV.

 

Legal insurance is one of the insurance policies anybody who can remotely afford it should have.

 

 

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5 hours ago, murphaph said:

I'm pretty sure Arbeitsgericht judgements are not public record.

 

Since a lawsuit must be filed, I would guess that it and the outcome would be on the public record.  The proceedings and outcome are 'official'.  If they're on the record and that record is searchable an astute HR would search.

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Even civil suits that are on public record are anonymised as far as I know. Any I've ever read always redact surnames and addresses.

 

I've searched a lot for cases similar to our own and they were all like that.

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On 2/8/2021, 9:02:51, Krieg said:

And on top of that, Covid-19 is not a blank card to retrench people, they will have to prove they have exhausted alternatives, like putting you in 100% Kurzarbeit.

Is 100% Kurzarbeit financially any different for an employee than unemployment insurance? I see lots of companies currently opting for Kurzarbeit. I think the goverment is even covering the cost of this for the company somehow.

 

Might be a nice time to look for another job or time for the company to find more work for it's employees.

However, an offer like six months full salary sounds good to me, if there is really a prospect of you finding another job.

In a company one friend of mine worked in, they sent nearly half the staff to Kurzarbeit, so I can't see the job market being that great just now.

Thus it may well be better to just sit tight, but see how hard it is to find another role somewhere else.

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1 minute ago, scook17 said:

Is 100% Kurzarbeit financially any different for an employee than unemployment insurance? I see lots of companies currently opting for Kurzarbeit. I think the goverment is even covering the cost of this for the company somehow.

 

Might be a nice time to look for another job or time for the company to find more work for it's employees.

However, an offer like six months full salary sounds good to me, if there is really a prospect of you finding another job.

In a company one friend of mine worked in, they sent nearly half the staff to Kurzarbeit, so I can't see the job market being that great just now.

Thus it may well be better to just sit tight, but see how hard it is to find another role somewhere else.

 

If you are on kurzarbeit 0, I don't think there is a financial difference to the employee vs. being unemployed.  The way kurzarbeit works for the employer is that they continue to pay their employees, full wages for hours worked or benefits amount for hours not worked.  They get the money for the benefits for hours not worked from arbeitsamt later on.  They also get some but not all the employment costs.  As far as I know, the employer still has to pay for the health insurance for example.  The employer has to inform the arbeitsamt if things change, like for example how much if at all the employee is working if this changes month to month.  The employee has no dealings with arbeitsamt, does not have to register, do interviews, applications etc.

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