Corona hearing in fine proceedings.

58 posts in this topic

Hi guys, 

I have a question. In the first day of the curfew (12th December) I was not aware about the new restriction rules and I was shopping around 21:00 o'clock at a Supermarket which was still open. At the exit the police was waiting for us and took our identity data. I am in Baden-Württemberg.

 

Now I received an "Anhörung im Bußgeldverfahren" as I was breaking the corona curfew. For me this seems quite unfair.They published the new rules one day before at 21:38 PM.How could they expect that everyone will be aware instantly.

Even the store was not aware as they left it open.

Also in the document with the new rules, in the footer is mentioned "1 Nichtamtliche konsolidierte Fassung nach Inkrafttreten der Verordnung der Landesregierung zur Änderung der Corona-Verordnung 
vom 11. Dezember 2020 (notverkündet gemäß § 4 des Verkündungsgesetzes)."  If I translate it correctly it means it is kind of unofficial.

Should I answer to the form they sent me, or I just incriminate myself more. I am really annoyed as this is unfair, you cannot change rules with less than 24 hours ,and then also go and hunt people, instead of just informing them and give them a warning in the worst case.

To get a lawyer I think it will be more expensive than the fine ? 

 

Any ideas, advices ?

 

Thanks.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MandarinDuck said:

In the first day of the curfew (12th December) I was not aware about the new restriction rules and I was shopping around 21:00 o'clock at a Supermarket which was still open. At the exit the police was waiting for us and took our identity data. I am in Baden-Württemberg.

By the time I checked out of a local Edeka on that day it was practically 8 pm.  Many of us were there when the store closed at 8 pm, rather than the normal 10 pm, due to the newly imposed BW curfew.  I had forgotten and rode my bike home fast and furiously afraid of getting nabbed.  No police were in sight.  I am befuddled as to why your store was allowed to even remain open past curfew time.  Perhaps that will help your case.  🤷‍♀️  Good luck.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

I am befuddled as to why your store was allowed to even remain open past curfew time.

 

According to the FAQ at the Baden-Würtemberg Corona website stores do not need to close at 8pm. It just doesn't make sense for them to remain open after curfew as no one is allowed to come.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

By the time I checked out of a local Edeka on that day it was practically 8 pm.    

You are allowed to finish working, shopping, visiting, etc, etc, etc at 8 pm and then travel home. Relax.  The aim is to stop people socialising in the evenings.  

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Bavaria the curfew starts at 9pm, I have been given a letter from my employer, saying that I can be out after 9pm, because we work shifts, to keep separated at work and with travel I can be home after 9pm, which is quite shit, but we have the virus

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, yesterday said:

In Bavaria the curfew starts at 9pm, I have been given a letter from my employer, saying that I can be out after 9pm, because we work shifts, to keep separated at work and with travel I can be home after 9pm, which is quite shit, but we have the virus

I have a very cute 🐕.  I rent him out to neighbors after 8 pm.  😂

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BethAnnBitt said:

I have a 🐕.  I rent him out to neighbors after 8 pm.  😂

Sorry dog walking is not included as an acceptable reason for going outside after curfew

 

But not sure I am correct :P

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, yesterday said:

Sorry dog walking is not included as an acceptable reason for going outside after curfew

 

But not sure I am correct :P

It is actually acceptable.  But I’m funnin‘ ya.  We just run down quickly at 10 or 11 pm for a bedtime whiz. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

It is actually acceptable.  But I’m funnin‘ ya.  We just run down quickly at 10 or 11 pm for a bedtime whiz. 

Cool, enjoy the run B)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, snowingagain said:

You are allowed to finish working, shopping, visiting, etc, etc, etc at 8 pm and then travel home. Relax.  The aim is to stop people socialising in the evenings.  

You must be home by 08:00 pm

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, MandarinDuck said:

I am really annoyed as this is unfair, you cannot change rules with less than 24 hours ,and then also go and hunt people...

 

Can't answer your question but agree this really stinks of Vaterstaat cashing in. Contact a journalist perhaps?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well - annoying/unfair or not - rules and regulations are to be obeyed. Not knowing about rules doesn't protect you from the fines.

 

That grocery store was allowed to stay open past Baden-Württemberg's 20:00 to 5:00 curfew, because it is a workplace. Work is permitted.

Also, if they had a delivery service pick up your orders from said grocery store and deliver to your home, that would be legal after 8pm (again because it is considered "work").

 

If something like that happened to me, I would simply pay the fine - consider it a small token of my appreciation for our hard working police :)

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, karin_brenig said:

If something like that happened to me, I would simply pay the fine - consider it a small token of my appreciation for our hard working police :)

 

I know we sometimes don't see eye to eye but I couldn't agree with you more.

 

Ignornce of the law is no excuse.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also like to add paying the fine is probably cheaper than a lawyer. Especially as the OP did - inadvertently - break the curfew.
It's not really fair, but it's legal.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Metall said:

It's not really fair, but it's legal.

 

Why is it not really fair?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, MandarinDuck said:

They published the new rules one day before at 21:38 PM.How could they expect that everyone will be aware instantly.

 

Just saying. But hey, not my circus...

 

I'm outta here.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, karin_brenig said:

That grocery store was allowed to stay open past Baden-Württemberg's 20:00 to 5:00 curfew, because it is a workplace. Work is permitted.

Work can be going on, as is legal, while the store is not open to customers because a curfew is in place.  That’s the case here.  🤷‍♀️  But after my initial screwup I make it a point to have everything over and done with by 7 pm.  I see next to no enforcement occurring in „liberal“ Konstanz.  Here much flies under the radar, albeit not from me.  I agree it’s best to pay the fine and learn from it.  I’ve been there and had to do that a few times in my life.  The world didn’t end.  😀

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fines are low in Germany anyway. Here in Cyprus it´s € 300 for your first offense, € 3000 for the second and you´ll have your day in court and possibly go to prison for the third one. Just to give some perspective.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Sir Percy B said:

Ignornce of the law is no excuse.

 

When the law was limited to 10 Commandments that argument would have held sway. Fair enough. Now the law is so complex even lawyers have to specialise. No-one can be expected to keep up. The law is to be applied judiciously by someone capable of thought. Not just willy-nilly-stupidly, robotically. Otherwise it takes on the appearance of an ass. Raking in the cash 24 hours after a change in the law is simply exploitation.

 

What constitutes a "low" fine is highly subjective.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, optimista said:

Now the law is so complex even lawyers have to specialise.

 

So complex, please explain, it's a curfew from 20.00-05.00?

 

There's nothing complex about a Curfew, you are either in or you are out in the stated times. 

 

 

5 hours ago, optimista said:

Raking in the cash 24 hours after a change in the law is simply exploitation.

 

If you're so clever then how long should we wait before such laws come into force? 

 

Till a few more thousand people are infected, or perhaps a couple of hundred more people die or finally until our hospitals are so overloaded that they cannot accept anymore patients.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now