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Cyclists are 3rd class in Germany

51 posts in this topic

 

 

4 hours ago, HEM said:

Here many cyclists do their best to organise their own death: dark clothes on a dark (usually wet) night & no lights.

 

And the other half, in typical German fashion, have no situational awareness. 

 

Be it in a supermarket, on an escalator or on the roads, Germans have very little idea about what is going on around them! 

 

They don't know how to indicate and they will often turn without checking behind them or simply stop in the cycle traffic flow! 

 

Wankers!  

 

4 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

Well I would say Portugal has a dreadful attitude to cyclists ... 

 

Third world country, though! 

 

3 hours ago, yourkeau said:

I just can't here in the Middle East: it's about 100 Höhenmeter and 7 km uphill battle under extreme heat. I can do it theoretically, but not every day. Sorry. Glad for the Finns, I miss cycling.

 

Comrade, you are never gonna climb the Matterhorn with that attitude!

 

3 hours ago, yourkeau said:

 Running red lights - ok. But cycling without any lights, it is a suicide attempt.

 

For me running a red is a no-no unless there is no one around. No lights and you deserve to go under an HGV. And people who cycle and smoke just look like cunts. 

 

3 hours ago, robinson100 said:

Obviously, I can´t speak for all of Germany, but around here I really do not think that cyclists are treated as 3rd class citizens - every day the cycle tracks are cleared of snow, in the hope that the cyclists will actually use them.

A friend of mine actually boasts that he is the only one using the cycle path from Söcking to Perchting, but it gets cleared "for him" every day!

One thing I do think about cyclists though, is that a large number of them have a death - wish!

Every day I see at least a handful of them dressed all in black, cycling along the main roads. Sorry, but that really is asking to be overseen in these dark days!!!

 

Here in Hamburg, where I live and not Brussels, they have put a lot of effort into upgrading the cycle ways. Sure, it takes time but it always pleases me to see new infrastructure. 

 

1 hour ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

Not cycling is good for the environment, city, and health and we should do all to make it easier.

 

Amen! 

 

The bicycle was even nominated as a Nobel Peace Prize winner! 

 

Bicycle 'should win Nobel Peace Prize'  (BBC, 12.10.15)

 

Quote

The Nobel Peace Prize 2016 should go to the bicycle - at least that is what two presenters on Italian state radio believe, and they have started a petition to push for it.

 

The popular Caterpillar programme on Italy's Rai 2 network is gathering signatures to present to the Norwegian Nobel Committee in February. The presenters describe the humble two-wheeler as an "instrument of peace". They say the bicycle does not cause wars - often fought over oil.

 

The bike "is the most democratic means of transport available to humanity", say Caterpillar's hosts Massimo Cirri and Sara Zambotti.

 

They add that each kilometre pedalled generates a benefit to society of €0.16 (30.12; $0.17), compared with the social costs of using a car.

 

 

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Instead of cycling I walk/ take public transport. The amount of times I have been almost run over by the cyclist is ridiculous. Always going through red lights when it is a pedestrian's turn to cross the road. Riding on the sidewalk at top speed and clinging their bell for me to get out of the way despite there being a designated bike lane on the road. I get the impression that they think they are above the law. 

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I love the Greek method of getting across an intersection. Every man just launches himself at it first (if you hesitate you will wait 8 hours for a gap) and somehow, magically the others give way at the last microsecond. How come this does not result in more accidents? What does this say about Greek communication, reflexes, expectations? Same in Italy except they do it at less speed. The Portguguese have changed their driving style from black to white in three decades. Not sure how that came about. Should've seen 'em in the 1980s in their rusty Renault 4s... beyond hair-raising. They now seem quite disciplined. Unless you are a cyclist.

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8 hours ago, hellfire99 said:

Comrade, you are never gonna climb the Matterhorn with that attitude!

 

Well, the plan is to climb and go back alive. This means I am doing it if weather conditions permit. Cycling to work you have to every day. I hate working from home especially now during Corona since all the neighbors are renovating their fucking apartments, and this is fucking legal. 

 

51 minutes ago, optimista said:

I love the Greek method of getting across an intersection. Every man just launches himself at it first (if you hesitate you will wait 8 hours for a gap) and somehow, magically the others give way at the last microsecond. How come this does not result in more accidents? What does this say about Greek communication, reflexes, expectations? Same in Italy except they do it at less speed.

Ok I did not drive in the south of Italy, but in the north they know how to use Reißverschlussverkehr way better than Germans. Middle Eastern people just can't, so you have traffic jams for no reason. Yes, being polite does not work: I have used my horn more times during these 2 years than in my entire life

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1 hour ago, Narjiz said:

Instead of cycling I walk/ take public transport. The amount of times I have been almost run over by the cyclist is ridiculous. Always going through red lights when it is a pedestrian's turn to cross the road. Riding on the sidewalk at top speed and clinging their bell for me to get out of the way despite there being a designated bike lane on the road. I get the impression that they think they are above the law. 

 

Maybe it's you? Cyclists often have their own set of lights with a few seconds difference from pedestrians. Are you sure you're not walking in the bike path which is often next to the sidewalk? Systems vary a lot, sometimes even in a city. And if you're in a big city, 1-2% of rule breakers is still enough to notice. It's IMO a system-wide erosion thing. As a cyclist, you are used to having your bike paths obstructed or full of broken beer bottles or perma-potholes, or not taken seriously by other drivers or pedestrians (the number of times I've had to ding people walking in bike lane, and they look at you like you're the criminal...), so I can see how a 'nobody cares anyway' attitude takes hold in some. IME it tends to be mostly (not exclusively) young men, ca. teens or early 20s, who ignore the rules most. But yes, I am in favour of ticketing anyone -- if caught. What annoys me most are Geisterfahrer, people riding on the wrong side of the road, especially when they hog the lane, oblivious to the fact they are on the wrong side, don't make way or move over and give you dirty WTF looks.

 

Though all this really depends where you are. I've always lived in places here in Germany where (luckily) the infrastructure is pretty good. I lived in Münster many years ago and there they have bike cops regularly patrolling, and they give tickets quite freely. At the start of uni semesters they do a lot of blitzes, since I'm sure it fills their coffers nicely. Three cops literally hiding behind bushes to nab wrongdoers and line-ups of students getting tickets one by one. On the other hand, bikes are taken seriously.

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Actually I've completely forgotten about the problem of pedestrians in the cycle lane. It just doesn't happen here. Not sure why. A lot of the cycle paths are also pedestrian paths. I think probably there are few shared paths in the city center where you go slowly anyway. And then are high speed completely segregated paths outside the center where you can safely just go for it. 

 

I also feel that German pedestrians are not so bad about walking in the cycle lane. It's the tourists. Especially from USA/Canada and Arab countries where the car is God. 

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In Germany bike paths former sidewalks stolen from pedestrians, so no wonder people keep walking on what once was theirs. 

 

In the Netherlands, they take the car lane and make a bike path out of it, no stealing from pedestrians, even though I have seen some neighborhoods in Amsterdam without a footpath, only bike and car pathes. The worst is that scooters are allowed to be there. Fucking scooters. 

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Ah, Germans and cycling. I'm not sure when cycle lessons in Grundschule started but it seems to have had the opposite affect on a huge portion of those that took part. And it's not just younger cyclists - everyone age group seems to be affected.  Most of the things have already been mentioned. Others: The cyclist going down the one-way street; ditto but on the footpath, full pelt; the cyclist not looking behind and doing a proper hand signal when changing lanes etc. 

 

Another thing that irritates me  - you see a whole family out for a cycle but it's only the kids wearing helmets. If the adults deem it necessary for the children to wear them, why do the adults insist on not wearing them? 

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I cycle, I walk and I take the trams etc.

There is a class of cyclist that is pretty much in their won world and seems to have lost the ability to consider others around them. We meet them in the woods, along the river back on in the town. Assholes basically, skaters also have a similar group.

 

When I lived in Berlin I cycled on the path (had to go via Alexanderplatz which is not fun on a bike and the cars, busses etc are busy watching each other) and managed to never hit anyone as I kept an eye on my speed and kept in mind that there is always the chance someone will come running out of a door, around a corner or from behind something. It's a big city and there is always someone on the move, even if you can't see them yet. 

 

However some people on bikes and skates etc act as if they are the only people there and the rest of us should keep out of their way.

 

On the other hand, cyclists in Amsterdam annoyed the absolute f*ck out of me. 

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4 hours ago, alderhill said:

 

Maybe it's you? Cyclists often have their own set of lights with a few seconds difference from pedestrians. Are you sure you're not walking in the bike path which is often next to the sidewalk? Systems vary a lot, sometimes even in a city. And if you're in a big city, 1-2% of rule breakers is still enough to notice. It's IMO a system-wide erosion thing. As a cyclist, you are used to having your bike paths obstructed or full of broken beer bottles or perma-potholes, or not taken seriously by other drivers or pedestrians (the number of times I've had to ding people walking in bike lane, and they look at you like you're the criminal...), so I can see how a 'nobody cares anyway' attitude takes hold in some. IME it tends to be mostly (not exclusively) young men, ca. teens or early 20s, who ignore the rules most. But yes, I am in favour of ticketing anyone -- if caught. What annoys me most are Geisterfahrer, people riding on the wrong side of the road, especially when they hog the lane, oblivious to the fact they are on the wrong side, don't make way or move over and give you dirty WTF looks.

 

Though all this really depends where you are. I've always lived in places here in Germany where (luckily) the infrastructure is pretty good. I lived in Münster many years ago and there they have bike cops regularly patrolling, and they give tickets quite freely. At the start of uni semesters they do a lot of blitzes, since I'm sure it fills their coffers nicely. Three cops literally hiding behind bushes to nab wrongdoers and line-ups of students getting tickets one by one. On the other hand, bikes are taken seriously.

No I am particularly careful since I am visibly an Auslaender and know if I do something wrong I'll probably be treated harsher than a German would. I am in Frankfurt and there are areas where it is a clearly marked side walk with a separate area for bikes. Not referring to those ambiguous areas. They're often ignored and it is not just 1-2%... wish it was.  I'm sure there are a good chunk of dumb pedestrians as well. Many of those who just cross the street despite the traffic signal being red (don't care if there are no cars, I'll wait like an idiot until it's green as it is a bad example to young children to just cross). Wish they would ticket both pedestrians and cyclists. But hey I'm sure the Polizei have better things to do. I just hope I don't get run over. I have had close calls, one where I fell over but didn't get hurt thankfully. The cyclist didn't even stop.

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Driving through Munich in the hight of the cycle season renders me a gibbering wreck. Seriously, I lived on Malta before coming to Germany two years ago and can tell you a Munich cyclist would have a life expectancy of five minutes on Malta.

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8 hours ago, Narjiz said:

No I am particularly careful since I am visibly an Auslaender and know if I do something wrong I'll probably be treated harsher than a German would. I am in Frankfurt and there are areas where it is a clearly marked side walk with a separate area for bikes. Not referring to those ambiguous areas. They're often ignored and it is not just 1-2%... wish it was.  I'm sure there are a good chunk of dumb pedestrians as well. Many of those who just cross the street despite the traffic signal being red (don't care if there are no cars, I'll wait like an idiot until it's green as it is a bad example to young children to just cross). Wish they would ticket both pedestrians and cyclists. But hey I'm sure the Polizei have better things to do. I just hope I don't get run over. I have had close calls, one where I fell over but didn't get hurt thankfully. The cyclist didn't even stop.

 

I haven't cycled in Frankfurt, to be fair. But no doubt there are dicks on wheels just as there are behind the wheel or in sneakers too! Hit and runners are the worst scum. 

 

My POV is that a thin bag of meat and blood is always going to lose versus a massive chunk of metal moving at high speed. And like I said, I have more than once seen the messy result of bad accidents and that was enough to scare me straight. Even 30km is enough to ruin your life, so I don't take chances. i can wait 30 seconds. But people risk it because they think it will never happen to them. 

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19 hours ago, pmd said:

Another thing that irritates me  - you see a whole family out for a cycle but it's only the kids wearing helmets. If the adults deem it necessary for the children to wear them, why do the adults insist on not wearing them? 

It's a law, it has nothing to do with what adults insist.

 

I cycle without a helmet. It promotes false sense of security and reckless cycling. As an adult I pay attention to the road, and do not get myself into situation when "helmet saved my life". This situation should never happen in the first place.

 

But the greatest harm helmets do they discourage cycling making it "dangerous sports". Less cyclists on the road = bad for everyone else.

 

There is a reason why no helmets are in Denmark and the Netherlands.

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20 hours ago, pmd said:

Another thing that irritates me  - you see a whole family out for a cycle but it's only the kids wearing helmets. If the adults deem it necessary for the children to wear them, why do the adults insist on not wearing them? 

 

Because it messes up their hair, they think they look silly and they don't have to. The same thing happened in the UK during the 90's when there was a campaign for cyclists to wear helmets as they can save lives when people are in an accident. You would see lots of children wearing helmets but the parents wouldn't. As these children grew up wearing helmets and don't know any different you now see both adults and children cyclists in the UK wearing helmets and the same thing will probably happen here in 10 or 15 years.

 

One crazy thing I notice about cyclists here is even on main roads you will see people (adults) cycling without their hands on the handlebars. I'm assuming this is illegal as they won't have full control over the bike but it happens a lot on a main road around the corner from me where there are buses and the occasional lorry as well. I always found this very strange when I first came here as you would see people cycling without their hands on the handlebars but people wouldn't cross the road unless the green man was showing.

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1 hour ago, yourkeau said:

It's a law, it has nothing to do with what adults insist.

 

Since when is it a Law?   

 

There is no legal requirment for Children or Adults to wear Helmets in Deutschland.

 

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I'm a cyclist and I have lived in 4 different countries and I find Germany the best one when it comes to cycling commute.

 

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12 minutes ago, Sir Percy B said:

 

Since when is it a Law?   

 

There is no legal requirment for Children or Adults to wear Helmets in Deutschland.

 

 

It's also not a law in the UK or Ireland, but it is recommended.

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15 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

I'm a cyclist and I have lived in 4 different countries and I find Germany the best one when it comes to cycling commute.

Obviously, none of those was the Netherlands or Denmark :).

 

I feel quite comfortable cycling in Munich, but things could be better. In the Netherlands we don't wear helmets in general. As a teenage kid, I also rode the bicycle without hands. 

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Bicycle helmet laws by country
 
960px-Mandatory_bicycle_helmet_legislati
 

 
  No legal restrictions
  Some local laws apply
  Children only; other local laws may also exist
  Partial rules apply
  Mandatory but no fines apply
  Mandatory
 
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1 hour ago, Sir Percy B said:

 

Since when is it a Law?   

 

There is no legal requirment for Children or Adults to wear Helmets in Deutschland.

 

 

Since 2011, children under 12 are supposed to wear helmets if they are in a bike seat or in a bike trailer. 

 

My wife and I both have helmets, but we usually don't wear them unless it's dark out and weather conditions are slippery or low vis, etc. The main reason we don't wear them is because it's another bulky thing I have to carry around if I'm going shopping or running errands, etc. I know, what a lame excuse, but there you have it. Our son wears one of course, period.

 

I only ride hands free on short stretches of straightaways where absolutely no cars are, i.e. bike paths or in a clear forest trail or something. Sometime it's fun. :) 

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