Cyclists are 3rd class in Germany

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I wonder what this guy would say about Portugal. We even have a Trash Metal music entitled "Morte aos ciclistas" (Death to Cyclists).

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12 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

I wonder what this guy would say about Portugal. We even have a Trash Metal music entitled "Morte aos ciclistas" (Death to Cyclists).

 

Well I would say Portugal has a dreadful attitude to cyclists & vegetarians (both of which I am) and thus the environment.

 

8 minutes ago, HEM said:

Here many cyclists do their best to organise their own death: dark clothes on a dark (usually wet) night & no lights.

 

Regrettable. But should not be an excuse to further discriminate against them. In fact if they went the Dutch or Nordic track of having high quality segregated cycle paths it would be less of an issue.

 

But I agree. I recently got my bike winterised including lights. Look: I was served by the she wolf of Winterfell. 

And "a girl" didn't even kill me & take my face. Guess my face wasn't good enough :(

 

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2 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

An extraordinary number of cycle trips in comparison to car trips take here. Even when the temperature is below -30.

Cycling in snow is not a big deal. Try cycling at +34. Also, I assume this Finnish city is flat. Bayreuth is hilly, but very small, so cycling uphill 2 km to work was not a big deal.

 

I just can't here in the Middle East: it's about 100 Höhenmeter and 7 km uphill battle under extreme heat. I can do it theoretically, but not every day. Sorry. Glad for the Finns, I miss cycling.

 

2 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

Police love catching cyclists cycling through red lights at 03:00 in the morning when the roads are empty. 

There was no policing in Bayreuth at all. Running red lights - ok. But cycling without any lights, it is a suicide attempt. Glad that in Munich they are checking safety. Why do you think Finnish cyclists run red lights?

 

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Cars parked on the cycle path. Well they have to park somewhere.

Not a big deal for me. They do it on weekends and times when no parking inspectors can fine them. I can just cycles around, no problem.

 

Netherlands are regarded as a cycling paradise, but have you ever tried to get off the cycling path and cycle on the road? Yes, it is illegal, and you will see how aggressive Dutch drivers are. In Germany cycling on the road with bike path present is also technically illegal, but if you are fast enough (say, 30 kmh) the police tolerates this.

 

Yes, Germany is an automobile country, but please, it is not that bad. Really. German drivers have a clue about Abstand. I have never felt unsafe.

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43 minutes ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

Well I would say Portugal has a dreadful attitude to cyclists & vegetarians (both of which I am) and thus the environment.

 

We don't have vegetarians.

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11 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

Cycling in snow is not a big deal. Try cycling at +34. Also, I assume this Finnish city is flat. Bayreuth is hilly, but very small, so cycling uphill 2 km to work was not a big deal.

 

I just can't here in the Middle East: it's about 100 Höhenmeter and 7 km uphill battle under extreme heat. I can do it theoretically, but not every day. Sorry. Glad for the Finns, I miss cycling.

 

There was no policing in Bayreuth at all. Running red lights - ok. But cycling without any lights, it is a suicide attempt. Glad that in Munich they are checking safety. Why do you think Finnish cyclists run red lights?

 

Not a big deal for me. They do it on weekends and times when no parking inspectors can fine them. I can just cycles around, no problem.

 

Netherlands are regarded as a cycling paradise, but have you ever tried to get off the cycling path and cycle on the road? Yes, it is illegal, and you will see how aggressive Dutch drivers are. In Germany cycling on the road with bike path present is also technically illegal, but if you are fast enough (say, 30 kmh) the police tolerates this.

 

Yes, Germany is an automobile country, but please, it is not that bad. Really. German drivers have a clue about Abstand. I have never felt unsafe.

Greek drivers have NO concept of Abstand. None. They hunt in packs of four. Not joking! 

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11 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

Why do you think Finnish cyclists run red lights?

If they would stop, they freeze to death 👻.

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Obviously, I can´t speak for all of Germany, but around here I really do not think that cyclists are treated as 3rd class citizens - every day the cycle tracks are cleared of snow, in the hope that the cyclists will actually use them.

A friend of mine actually boasts that he is the only one using the cycle path from Söcking to Perchting, but it gets cleared "for him" every day!

One thing I do think about cyclists though, is that a large number of them have a death - wish!

Every day I see at least a handful of them dressed all in black, cycling along the main roads. Sorry, but that really is asking to be overseen in these dark days!!!

 

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In our part of Crete, there are only two types of cyclists ( bearing in mind cycle paths are an unknown concept- as are proper pavements!):

young children ( but even there- not common ) and mad French/ German/ Swiss cyclists in the hot months who think it’s a good idea to cycle up and down hilly roads in the boiling heat.😀

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1 hour ago, HEM said:

 

no lights.

Understandable, Germany has the second highest prices for electricity.

No real winter here, the bike wheels with the studded tires are still in the cellar.

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25 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

Netherlands are regarded as a cycling paradise, but have you ever tried to get off the cycling path and cycle on the road? Yes, it is illegal, and you will see how aggressive Dutch drivers are. In Germany cycling on the road with bike path present is also technically illegal, but if you are fast enough (say, 30 kmh) the police tolerates this.

 

I have actually. And it was explained to me that if there's an accident between a car and a cyclist the car is at fault. Always. It makes drivers very scared of drunk cyclists, and they are very careful around them.

 

25 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

We don't have vegetarians.

 

Well Lisbon now has many vegan restaurants. Vegans are people who think vegetarians are immoral for their cheese consumption. 

It's a far cry from when I was in Lisbon 20 years ago and the only food was chips & Russian salad. I know @MikeMelga loves hearing that story.

 

16 minutes ago, john g. said:

Greek drivers have NO concept of Abstand. None. They hunt in packs of four. Not joking! 

 

Cyclists rights are the luxury of rich countries, and the necessity of very poor countries. Greece falls in between

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That is not the issue- ( re Abstand )..Greek drivers hunt in macho packs.  Always four.. can’t get my head around that. But my partner Nicole has her views on that re Schwanz issues!😂

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This person has some great videos about cycling infrastructure in the Netherlands - Germany has a long way to go to in this regard...

 

 

 

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@usudarshan Ji!

 

That is a very interesting video, which says almost the same as the article I linked.

 

It is interesting that the general theme of this thread is "fuck cyclists" because they wear black.

Not cycling is good for the environment, city, and health and we should do all to make it easier.

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1 hour ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

Well Lisbon now has many vegan restaurants. Vegans are people who think vegetarians are immoral for their cheese consumption. 

It's a far cry from when I was in Lisbon 20 years ago and the only food was chips & Russian salad. I know @MikeMelga loves hearing that story.

 

For the same reason that Portugal has 10 Starbucks: foreign visitors.

Going back on topic, I would not cycle in Portugal but I gladly do it in Germany.

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Actually it would seem that the coffee in Portugal is as bad as its vegetarian food and attitude to cycling.

That's why they have so many Starbucks. The Lisbonese woke up to their right to drinkable coffee.

 

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The coffee in Portugal is not that great, in spite of the belief by many Portuguese that they have great coffee. I like Starbucks coffee better than much of the rest. And i do not mind paying a bit extra for it. The great thing is that when i first came to Faro there was no Starbucks. Then they brought a coffee shop to the town and now i can stock up on my favourite brew. Hope that they offer delivery in this time of crisis.

 

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Not a big deal for me. They do it on weekends and times when no parking inspectors can fine them. I can just cycles around, no problem.

 

SWIM once regularly biked to work along a popular bike path that cut perpendicular through residential streets, so you had to cross the road each time you passed. Normally not a big deal. Where the curb dipped to meet asphalt on the path was a NO PARKING sign. Blue with a red X. On each street. Pretty clear. One morning, a large luxury brand SUV parked right in the spot, bumper to bumper with the cars in front and behind, blocking the path, so you couldn't even squeeze through. Basically had to go up the road ca. 90-100m to the next intersection and ride back to the bike path. There were always several (other) cyclists hopped off looking around like WTF and pushing their bikes up the road. This friggin' SUV sat there for at least 5 days, with no tickets as far as I could see. On the 5th day, SWIM had a bright orange oil pastel and wrote some helpful messages of parking advice and phallic symbology on each and every window of the SUV. On the 5th evening, the SUV was gone.

 

 

1 hour ago, usudarshan said:

This person has some great videos about cycling infrastructure in the Netherlands - Germany has a long way to go to in this regard...

 

 

 

I am from Toronto (and a daily rain or shine cyclist too!) and while I agree the state of cycle infrastructure is woefully behind what it could be, the narrator's smugness and cultural cringe are a little distracting (although he is right about toques). Toronto is a big city, and most people live where they can and work where they can, and those two points are not necessarily close. In uni, I did bike from home to classes on a few occasions, for experimental fun, but it took 90 minutes and I was a wheezing sweat sponge afterwards (I was less fit then, granted). Versus 30 minutes max on the subway. Toronto also has enough elevation changes (not massive, nor on major streets, but noticeable especially from 'east to west') as you cross various valleys and glacier-scraped landforms, it can be quite a workout, depending where you are and where you're going. As the video mentions, it's also unsafe. Car drivers are simply not used to sharing the road, cyclists are often not expected. Too many people view rules of the road as suggestions of the road. No one sees anything wrong with overtaking on the right, right turns on red are allowed and people rarely check the sidewalk, and cars barrel out of parking lots without far enough glances down the road. All close calls I've had. I've seen with my own eyes bike accidents involving blood and bone, and I simply won't ride where cars are.

 

Oulu sounds great in this regard, and I almost want to visit just to winter bike there, it looks fun. :) But it is still a small town. I've been to Helsinki, and the far north for cross country skiing and northern lights, would highly recommend it and will do it again some day.

 

As with the cold everywhere, if you're standing around doing nothing, you feel it. If you're active, you won't. I remember cross-country skiing in -35C one sunny February day and I was boiling in my layers of merino and goretex. Had to cool off and I was steaming like a hot roast from the oven, and didn't wear gloves the rest of the time (yep, all fingers still here).

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