Garden irrigation system - drip or perlschlauch - pressure question

66 posts in this topic

Super interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

Here what I found:

https://www.energie-fachberater.de/grundstueck-garage/regenwassernutzung/kosten-und-wirtschaftlichkeit-der-regenwassernutzung.php

Prices:

purchase and installation: 25000 - 5000 eur, half of this is the cost of the tanks

wartung: 100eur/yr (I'm surprised it's this high)

yearly savings: 160-200 

 

I hate to say it but most people are in favor of environmental measures only if it helps their finances:angry::(

You are in the minority. The good minority. With these numbers no surprise extremely few do it.

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26 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

purchase and installation: 2500 - 5000 eur, half of this is the cost of the tanks

wartung: 100eur/yr (I'm surprised it's this high)

 

It would be expensive to do this when moving into a ready built house.

But it's only a fraction if you build (assuming the builder/plumber/architect

will listen and plan with you)

 

I don't have annual costs for maintenance (I do the cleaning myself)

But I had the the pump changed after 10 yrs. and that would bring the average up.

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Two things happened last week.

Got my yearly water bill calculated on the exact amount: 193qm, and ca 900eur of water!!!! :wacko:

Wow. I knew I used much but didn't think of such high cost.

Bought on eBayKleinanzeige two IBC 1000l black tanks. I'm excited now designing the system to feed the tanks from the roofs of house and garage and shed, and feed the plants from the tanks via hoses and timer and pump. All in all I expect an investement of 500-700eur, trying to make it money well spent.
Last year it was huge fun watering the tomatoes and the lawn. But it took too much money and time. Better be smart next time round...

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I did some math. The total roof at our property is Haus 9x9, plus garage 2.5 x 6.5: tot. 16m2 (I'm excluding the gartenhaus 2.5x2.5, and the Terasseuberdach, maybe 2x7). 

Water data here is summer rain ca 6cm/month, so tot. volume collectable once I set up the downpipe diverters etc. (9x9 + 2.5*6.5)*0.06 = 5.8 qm/month. 

Say this 5.8 qm/monthis split into 3 days of rain, 2qm/day, one rain every 10days, so if both 1000l tanks are empty by the time it rains they catch the whole rain.

Say I use this for 4months, so 23qm.

Water is 1.7eur/qm, plus 2.7eur/qm if you don't have a Gartenwasserzhaler. So my system would save me max 23*1.7 = 39eur/yr

 

Cost of the system: ca 400eur

 

3 zinc rain diverters: 3 * 23eur 

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B00UFJLVHW/?coliid=I2CU8S2ZSLCX11&colid=2AH32XCQSRYS6&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

pump: 100eur

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B01NGTI93G/?coliid=I1EPR0ZRCHISH7&colid=2AH32XCQSRYS6&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

2 tanks: tot. 2 x 90eur = 180eur

 

tanks connector: 6eur

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B003F0WQEA/?coliid=I1RBVIYWIXZFAS&colid=2AH32XCQSRYS6&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

ignoring timer pipes etc that I would have even without rainharvesting

So a payoff of ca 10yr, provided no mistakes, nothing breaks down, etc etc. all very unlikely of course.

This ignores the enviromental aspect, which is very important to me, and the fun and excitement of planning designing and executing the project, also extremely valuable.

 

Any comment?

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It will be interesting to see how you go with your plans - I was going to come on and suggest you started with tanks off ebay kleinanzeigen, and you had already done it! 

 

Round here, the summer rain will not allow us to do what you are hoping - we find that there is no rain for weeks, and then loads comes at once, so the 1000l tank does not refill very quickly. Then masses comes at once, and the spare is going down the drain.

 

Your water consumption is massive - would you consider not watering the lawn? Environmentally it is a bit pointless. Tomatoes, yes, at least they give you a return, lawn, not so much.

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Rainwater, running off roofs will collect dirt.

IMHO If not filtered this will eventually block drip systems / perlschlauch.

 

Think of some sort of filter - either a sieve / mesh at the filling point,

and/or a finer mesh also to protect the pump.

Either you can get a cheap pump and expect it to need replacing every few years

or spend more on the installation -

eg pump feed from the tank water surface where it's cleaner.

 

Here's a pic of what I mean

 

The underwater inlet pipe keeps the noise down too...

 

Currently here up north, it's been under 0°C for a week.

Any pipes / sprinklers / taps left unattended would freeze up and be damaged

if not drained and blown through end of autumn.

 

Topic is "winterisation"

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks x the comments kiplette.

 

23 minutes ago, kiplette said:

Round here, the summer rain will not allow us to do what you are hoping - we find that there is no rain for weeks, and then loads comes at once, so the 1000l tank does not refill very quickly. Then masses comes at once, and the spare is going down the drain.

Yes, my fear is that water comes "all at once" so the tanks turned out to be undersized, we'll see, can always put more.

 

23 minutes ago, kiplette said:

Your water consumption is massive - would you consider not watering the lawn? Environmentally it is a bit pointless. Tomatoes, yes, at least they give you a return, lawn, not so much.

Mind you, the amount of tomatoes I got last year was very huge:D.

But you are right, used way too much water.

1) I will water the veg "slowly" as they all suggest it takes less water, better efficiency

2) I will probably give up watering the lawn (which is very large), I succumbed to the pressure from my Mum to have it pretty (mind you my mum ever only saw my lawn via WhatsApp, she is >1000km away). After all watering the lawn only makes it prettier, I care about saving money and environment, but stuff being pretty not high on my agenda.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

Rainwater, running off roofs will collect dirt.

IMHO If not filtered this will eventually block drip systems / perlschlauch.

Thanks for pointing this out, I kind of knew it but almost forgot it.

Super nice and useful that you remind it.

 

8 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

Currently here up north, it's been under 0°C for a week.

Any pipes / sprinklers / taps left unattended would freeze up and be damaged

if not drained and blown through end of autumn.

 

Topic is "winterisation"

I'm in Pinneberg, measured -18C last week!

Sure, I will disconnect and open the pipes and tanks in autumn, 5min job once a year. I think this will do it...

The pipes will not be buried (too much hassle, hard to troubleshoot if need), rather sitting at ground level, just kind of sitting out of sight.

 

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On 14/01/2021, 09:42:35, Gambatte said:

 

Followed the instructions here. Last week installed the meter. Today it was approved. Bill was almost 900 Euros from last year (281m3), and I would guess most of it was spent in the garden. Will invest in a rain water capture system too, but as someone mentioned it seems in Bavaria we get huge downpours and then nothing for weeks. I have a dirty water pump I I tried out last year which seemed to give almost enough pressure for the irrigation system I installed. It's surprising how much water such a system will consume, but rainwater in the garden vs rainwater in the soak away seems a much better idea. Helps grow the many fruits I'd like to grow, but as a complete beginner, have not been very successful yet on that front.

 

100L of water with no garden tap = 31c.

100L of water with garden tap = 18c. (42% cheaper).

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Scook, here my system:

200 square meter of total roof area, all channeled to the storage (two tanks 1000l and 70eur each, two more 300l ones free on eBay-Kleinanzeige, plus two more 160l ones inherited from previous house owner). Bought a cheap garden water pump, like 60-70eur, works like magic. Also bought PVC cables, which I buried 2cm underground to transport the rainwater from the tanks (near the house) to the raised beds far away at the back of the garden. Plus perlschlauch.

Also had to buy many copper plumbers fitting stuff, easy to get confused with all the various sizes and format. Don't buy the cheaper plastic ones, they break too soon, metal costs more but lasts forever.

All in all not cheap. I did the math (I'm a math freak) and calculated 10yr to recover all costs. But hey, you don't do this to save cash, you do it for the feel-good environmental element, and for the fun of it.

 

In autumn I moved all hoses to the garage, to prevent damage. Looking forward installing them again mid April.

 

More on money: no matter how much you can spend buying tomatoes, or whatever, you can't buy any as good as those from the garden. You just can't. Ripe tomatoes, or strawberry, or whatever, eaten 5min after harvesting they just taste heaven. Completely different from anything one can buy. Those who never tried can't possibly know.

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Best would be to drill a water well in the garden. Drill, not dig. I'm still too lazy for it right now, maybe later when the adrenaline goes up again...

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2 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Best would be to drill a water well in the garden. Drill, not dig. I'm still too lazy for it right now, maybe later when the adrenaline goes up again...

 

This is what I did as part of my landscaping ten years ago.  The water table in my area is about nine meters below grade so it was an easy job for the contractors.  The submersible pump is controlled by a Hunter irrigation system and feeds two zones for my yard and another two zones for the flower beds.  The flower beds have drip lines, and the yard has 13 or 14 Hunter pop-up rotating sprinkler heads around the perimeter.

 

My only maintenance tasks are to purge the water in the irrigation system every winter and check/clean the filter in the valve manifold box twice a year.  The winter purge takes about 30 minutes and reduces the likelihood that the plastic pipes will burst from freezing.

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Coooool.

So you didn't really do it yourself, you hired contractors right? Still cool 😃.

How much it costed?

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2 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Coooool.

So you didn't really do it yourself, you hired contractors right? Still cool 😃.

How much it costed?

 

The cost of the drilling the well was part of the overall price for the landscaping contract.  I know the pump was €890 without VAT because I saw the invoice from the vendor.  My cost for the landscaping was just over €50K and it transformed a construction site into a beautiful yard.

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4 hours ago, Gambatte said:

So you didn't really do it yourself

 

 I have occasionally seen well drills on ebay klein for 1-200 euros, which would allow you to actually DIY. Presumably if you are anywhere hilly you are going to need loads of  sections. 

 

Permission is needed to sink a well, at least around here. although people don't bother in general.

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9 hours ago, kiplette said:

 I have occasionally seen well drills on ebay klein for 1-200 euros, which would allow you to actually DIY. Presumably if you are anywhere hilly you are going to need loads of  sections. 

 

Permission is needed to sink a well, at least around here. although people don't bother in general.

Yes, I have seen them too and I was tempted. I think they are limited to like 6 or 9 m depth, which is neither bad nor great. At this depth you have much water, but not all the time.

I will probably give it a go sometime...

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11 hours ago, JG52 said:

 

The cost of the drilling the well was part of the overall price for the landscaping contract.  I know the pump was €890 without VAT because I saw the invoice from the vendor.  My cost for the landscaping was just over €50K and it transformed a construction site into a beautiful yard.

 

Wow, that's a lot more than I would have guessed. Happy for you if you have a good garden.

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1 hour ago, Gambatte said:

Wow, that's a lot more than I would have guessed. Happy for you if you have a good garden.

 

We are very pleased with the garden.  We bought the three-year old house for a bargain price from a motivated seller.  The interior of the house was finished to an impressive high standard, but the owner stopped construction before the general contractor could complete the two-car garage, landscaping, or final finish on the house exterior. 

 

The garage was an open shell without a roof or doors.  The garden looked like an abandoned construction site with a concrete dump area in one corner of the lot used by the pump trucks.  The only green vegetation was weeds.  I mowed it every weekend just to reduce the unsightly appearance.  The weeds were about knee high when we closed on the house, but one neighbor told me there were times when the weeds were much higher.

 

Externally, it was an eyesore but my wife and I saw the potential.  Our neighbors are also happy we bought the house and renovated it.

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Very interesting.

We did differently. Bought a crappy old house. Got it demolished (in fact, by a neighbor, I didn't even know at the time this guy lived in our new street). Got a constructor built us a new house in place. The construction industry is a nightmare: they convince you the are super top quality serious professional. But a millisecond after you signed they start showing you why they are the worstest cowboys, the ONLY things they care is making their life easier, taking your money, and not giving you a chance to sue them. And they spent decades training for this, so good luck you fighting them on their home ground.

 

Anyway the oldies living in "our house" left us a wonderful plot with a fantastic garden. Including the biggest ever cherry tree (200 jam jars per year) and many squirrels always visiting.

We did do plenty of garden work, but only because we wanted. On my last count 14 fruit trees. Plus everything else.

 

I wish youngsters too could more easily afford good housing near work family friends.

 

Sorry went out of topic.

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