Buying a house without realtor

57 posts in this topic

I'm looking at buying a house directly from the owner. What paperwork needs to be prepared if I buy it? Is the seller responsible for creating the purchase contract? Should I have my own realtor review it?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You need a notary. 

 

I would also recommend having a Bausachverständiger take a look at it first.  Buying a house in Germany works differently than what you are used to in America. 

 

Don't try to do everything yourself. 

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I'm aware of the notary. Does the notary create any of the sale documents or do they just review and stamp them? I'll look into the Bausachverständiger, thanks.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AlexCLE said:

Does the notary create any of the sale documents

Yes, and you as well as the seller will be given a draft you need to approve before it gets finalized.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AlexCLE said:

Yes, I'm aware of the notary. Does the notary create any of the sale documents or do they just review and stamp them? I'll look into the Bausachverständiger, thanks.

They takes care of contract preparation, and informing the finanzamt and tax officials with the change. They oversee that all the process moves smoothly. They have a standard contract which they will modify it of some special terms need to be added. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, jeba said:

Yes, and you as well as the seller will be given a draft you need to approve before it gets finalized.

 

The fun continues on sale day.

The contract is read out loud, for everyone to enjoy and savour the moment.

 

Mine was read at the speed of a cattle auctioneer. 

Had to keep reminding him that I wanted to understand too. Although I had read it.

We had conversations during the reading and minor corrections were included.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The notar appointment is hilarious really.

Adults sat in a room, mostly bored, as the norar goes through the whole document.

 

Having said that, at ours they ended up making changes. We brought up two points, the owner one and the estate agent 2...

 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AlexCLE said:

I'm looking at buying a house directly from the owner. What paperwork needs to be prepared if I buy it? Is the seller responsible for creating the purchase contract? Should I have my own realtor review it?

 

No reason to have a Makler involved for either party. 

I agree with having a home inspection.  You might also want to have your own surveyor make sure the property boundaries are (1) what you think; and (2) properly marked.  Yeah, you could save some money today by not doing that but if you find out later you paid for 25 qm that you didn't get...

And i agree with comments on the Notar.  Remember also, you are the Notar's customer.  You'll likely run into the usual German absence of customer service, but you're paying your money to the Notar so if you have questions the Notar's and/or secretary should darn well deal with them. 

That said, the Notar is supposed to be neutral and looking out for the state that all is done correctly and is not really concerned that you'll be happy in the future with the transaction (other than issues of customer service and will you return for future Notar services and/or speak well of them).  If you have discomfort with the Notar either get a Rechtsanwalt's thoughts on what the Notar is telling you, and/or change Notar. 

 

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd also take in to account the market the property is in (size, location etc).

We found out quick that properties that we thought would be less were sold at a high price, or at least at a higher price than we expected.

 

There was a detached house with about 120sqm and about 6 to 800 sqm of ground that was right next to the tram line. And when I say right next to, the fence from the property is around 2 to 3 meters from the track. The house 1 meter away from the fence. The tram goes in each direction every 10 minutes and it's a night tram, over night it's every 30 minutes (apart from maybe between 3 and 4 when they do not run). House is just dirty red brick, etc. Also on (a further 3 meters from the tram track) one of the main roads in to the city.

 

Went for 280,000 and was described by the estate agent as a bargain as the owner's wanted  quick sale. It went within a day.

 

Even if any check brings up problems, it's a sellers market at the moment. 

 

 

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just bought a apartment with no makler,  or any inspectors etc but I am very familar with buiding. If I was buying a actual separate house then I would hire a inspector and survey. Notar took care of all contacts etc. Keep in mind if your german is not great and the notar does  not speak great english they may insist in you hiring a in person official translator at your cost. First 2 notars i called nsisted on translator on site. In the end I found a english speaking notar that wrote contract in english and german and held signing in both for only a little extra cost.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, lunasuenos said:

 If I was buying a actual separate house then I would hire a inspector and survey. 

 

Notes in general for the OP- not directed at you @lunasuenos

  1. Chances are, you're buying the largest single investment of your life (so far).
  2. You are in a foreign country with different rules and regs than you are used to in your birthplace
  3. You are not a lawyer and don't read contracts for fun and relaxation
  4. You are not in the building, renovation or material science trade

You need professional advice and not just internet support.

 

Pay for a surveyor (Gutachter). That will cost you up front but will find stuff that you can at

least use to haggle the price down. May even find stuff the owner doesn't realise.

 

In the worst case, they may find stuff to turn you away from the purchase completely.

 

Should you move in and the roof falls off, you've got someone to sue (joke)

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

Should you move in and the roof falls off, you've got someone to sue (joke)

I know this is tongue in cheek, the point is really valid. If things go pear-shaped, it's far easier to make a claim against a gutachter (who will 1) have put his advice in writing and 2) be insured) than it will be against someone who by definition is b@ggering off somewhere else!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cb6dba said:

I'd also take in to account the market the property is in (size, location etc).

We found out quick that properties that we thought would be less were sold at a high price, or at least at a higher price than we expected.

 

There was a detached house with about 120sqm and about 6 to 800 sqm of ground that was right next to the tram line. And when I say right next to, the fence from the property is around 2 to 3 meters from the track. The house 1 meter away from the fence. The tram goes in each direction every 10 minutes and it's a night tram, over night it's every 30 minutes (apart from maybe between 3 and 4 when they do not run). House is just dirty red brick, etc. Also on (a further 3 meters from the tram track) one of the main roads in to the city.

 

Went for 280,000 and was described by the estate agent as a bargain as the owner's wanted  quick sale. It went within a day.

 

Even if any check brings up problems, it's a sellers market at the moment. 

 

 

 

 

How did you find out the sold price? Trying to work out possible market values of properties around here seems to need personal access to the Top Secret Grundbuchamt!

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Feierabend said:

How did you find out the sold price? Trying to work out possible market values of properties around here seems to need personal access to the Top Secret Grundbuchamt!

 

In Bavaria there is the "Gutachterausschuss" which has the purchase prices on file. Not sure though under which conditions they will give you access. AFAIR there were estate agents who had that info as well on their website.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, engelchen said:

You need a notary. 

 

I would also recommend having a Bausachverständiger take a look at it first.  Buying a house in Germany works differently than what you are used to in America. 

 

Don't try to do everything yourself. 

I guess a Bausachverständiger is also recommend when a Mackler is involved ?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, zeppo said:

I guess a Bausachverständiger is also recommend when a Mackler is involved ?

 

Unless you are one,

you need one

;)

 

PS I wouldn't trust a Makler further than I could spit a rat. They're getting paid for a done deal.

Not working for you...

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 minute ago, HH_Sailor said:

 

Unless you are one,

you need one

;)

 

PS I wouldn't trust a Makler further than I could spit a rat. They're getting paid for a done deal.

Not working for you...

 

I'm with the Sailor on this.

 

16 minutes ago, zeppo said:

I guess a Bausachverständiger is also recommend when a Mackler is involved ?

 

Most realtors in Germany are useless and have little incentive to point out faults to you. Furthermore, you really need an expert to evaluate the structure who also knows German building codes. 

 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Feierabend said:

How did you find out the sold price? Trying to work out possible market values of properties around here seems to need personal access to the Top Secret Grundbuchamt!

 

We know people that know the people who sold it etc.

As far as we were told it went for the asking price. Granted that is third hand info but usually if the price changes, it goes up.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, HH_Sailor said:

 

Unless you are one,

you need one

;)

 

PS I wouldn't trust a Makler further than I could spit a rat. They're getting paid for a done deal.

Not working for you...

 

They are legal thieves. I found my house online, called, made an appointment, looked at it and said I would take it. The Makler spent more time trying to make sure I didn't cut him out of the contract with the house seller than he did selling the house. He literally sat down at the sellers kitchen table and said "look around". Boom, 25ish thousand euros for sitting and making an appointment at the Notar. Criminals 

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my area prices have been going up 9% per year since 2012, and I'm just in small town Southern Germany (3600/m2). It's crazy. And what you can buy often need lots of renovation and upgrades in heating/insulation due to all the environmental housing rules. You can buy a new Fertighaus but the hidden costs add up quickly (nebenkosten, soil tests,  basement, interiors, driveway/garage, etc) and you usually end up out in the boonies. Maybe less of a concern now with corona normalizing home office in the future. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now