Travel within Germany in the current corona lockdown (Dec 10 - Jan 10 2020)

[GoldenLizard 109]

Hallo All

 

Hope you are all safe and healthy out there.

 

At the outset, let me make a disclaimer that the information I am seeking is probably out there on some government website for Bayern, but my challenge is I dont understand German. So I know I am trying a short-cut by tapping into your collective wisdom instead of translating each page returned by ggogle.de

 

A friend of mine (2 adults and 1 kid) live in Baden Wurttemberg and has invited me to visit him from Jan 1 to Jan 3. I know of the rule in Germany for no more than 4 adults to meet up in a single house. This is met as our family is 2 adults and 2 kids.

 

I would like to know if there could be any complications when we drive back into Munich on Jan 3. We intend to drive in the daytime and return as well, so I will not violate the nighttime curfew. By complications, I mean whether we will be stopped at the state border, allowed in only after a corona test, quarantine at home after arrival or other stuff on similar lines.

 

I will greatly appreciate advice. For those concerned about the corona spread, my friend's family and I both are in our social bubbles from almost Dec 18 (the day schools closed).

 

[engelchen 12,472]

 

1 hour ago, GoldenLizard said:

I would like to know if there could be any complications when we drive back into Munich on Jan 3. We intend to drive in the daytime and return as well, so I will not violate the nighttime curfew. By complications, I mean whether we will be stopped at the state border, allowed in only after a corona test, quarantine at home after arrival or other stuff on similar lines.

 

The rules are in flux. For example, at the moment you wouldn't be able to visit your friends in MV. At the moment it seems possible. Next week who knows.

[Space Cowboy 1,366]

There are no „border checks“ between the states in Germany.

[engelchen 12,472]

Quote

Kann ich derzeit aus anderen Bundesländern und dem Ausland nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern einreisen?

Im Dezember 2020 gelten in Deutschland besondere Schutzmaßnahmen gegen das Corona-Virus.

Urlaubsreisen aus anderen Bundesländern und dem Ausland sind derzeit nicht möglich.

Reisen aus anderen Bundesländern und aus dem Ausland nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern sind deshalb derzeit nur in Ausnahmefällen möglich.

Zulässige Ausnahmen sind:

• Sie haben ihren Erst- oder Zweitwohnsitz in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern oder sind im Amt Neuhaus gemeldet. Sie können sich von im selben Haushalt lebenden Personen begleiten lassen.
• Sie reisen aus beruflichen Gründen nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.
• Sie reisen nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, um ein Mitglied ihrer Kernfamilie zu besuchen. Als Kernfamilie gelten Ehegatten, eingetragene Lebenspartner, Lebensgefährten, Kinder, Eltern, Geschwister, Enkel, Urenkel, Großeltern und Urgroßeltern. Sie können zusammen mit Ihren im selben Haushalt lebenden Ehegatten, eingetragenen Lebenspartner, Lebensgefährten und Stiefkindern einreisen.
• Sie reisen nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, damit Ihre Kinder eine Kita oder Schule besuchen können oder um selber eine allgemeinbildende Schule, Berufsschule oder Schule für Erwachsene hier im Land zu besuchen. Sie können sich von im selben Haushalt lebenden Personen begleiten lassen. 
• Sie sind an einer Hochschule in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern immatrikuliert. Sie können sich von im selben Haushalt lebenden Personen begleiten lassen. 
• Sie sind Eigentümer, Erbbauberechtigt oder Erbpächter eines auf dem Gebiet des Landes Mecklenburg-Vorpommern liegenden Grundstücks, Kleingartens oder Bootseigner mit Liegeplatz in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. Sie können sich von im selben Haushalt lebenden Personen begleiten lassen. 
• Sie haben mit einem Campingplatz, Vermieter von Ferienwohnungen und -häusern oder Hausbooten oder vergleichbaren Anbietern bis einschließlich 31. August 2020 einen Vertrag über mindestens sechs Monate für das Jahr 2020 und 2021 abgeschlossen. Sie können sich von im selben Haushalt lebenden Personen begleiten lassen. 
• Sie fahren nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, um hier zu heiraten.
• Sie reisen nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, um an einer Trauerfeier teilnehmen zu können.
• Sie reisen aus zwingenden medizinischen Gründen nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern oder um eine unaufschiebbare Maßnahme der medizinischen Vorsorge oder Rehabilitation antreten zu können.
• Sie reisen nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, um einer rechtlichen oder moralischen Verpflichtung nachzukommen. Eine moralische Verpflichtung kann beispielsweise der Besuch eines alleinstehenden Bewohners eines Pflegeheims sein, der keine Kernfamilie mehr besitzt
• Sie verfügen über das Jagdausübungsrecht in einem Jagdbezirk in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern oder sind Inhaber einer entgeltlichen Jahresjagderlaubnis für einen Jagdbezirk in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. Jagdgäste, die nur für einen Tag, ein Wochenende oder ein bis zwei Wochen einreisen, dürfen nicht einreisen.
• Sie wollen nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern umziehen und können den Umzug nicht aufschieben. Auch die Einreise zum Zwecke der Immobiliensuche ist davon erfasst,w enn Sie nachweislich als Arbeitnehmer nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern versetzt werden, Sie hier eine neue Arbeit aufnehmen oder hier einen neuen Unternehmenssitz begründen wollen.
• Sie reisen nur durch die Bundesrepublik Deutschland oder Mecklenburg-Vorpommern durch und verlassen Mecklenburg-Vorpommern auf direktem Weg wieder. 

Bitte führen Sie geeignete Schriftstücke mit sich, die belegen, dass Sie aus einem dieser Gründe nach Mecklenburg-Vorpommern reisen.

Source:

 

https://www.regierung-mv.de/service/Corona-FAQs/Tourismus-und-Reisen/#:~:text=F%C3%BCr%20Reisende%20aus%20Risikogebieten%20im,nur%20in%20bestimmten%20Ausnahmef%C3%A4llen%20erlaubt.

 

MV has issued an entry ban for non-residents. It is possible. I have no idea whether BW or Bavaria are considering doing the same.

[GoldenLizard 109]

35 minutes ago, engelchen said:

Source:

 

https://www.regierung-mv.de/service/Corona-FAQs/Tourismus-und-Reisen/#:~:text=F%C3%BCr%20Reisende%20aus%20Risikogebieten%20im,nur%20in%20bestten% 20Exception% C3% A4llen% 20 allowed.

 

MV has issued an entry ban for non-residents. It is possible. I have no idea whether BW or Bavaria are considering doing the same.

 

Thank you. Would you know the equivalent of https://www.regierung-mv.de for Bavaria and Baden-Wurttemburg? Would it be https://www.regierung.oberbayern.bayern.de/? Also, should I be checking the rules for all the states that come between Munich and Heidelberg?

 

One more thing, how does MV state enforce this if as @Space cowboy says there are no border checks between states in Germany?

[fraufruit 35,124]

FFS, Dude. Don't travel. The numbers are horrible. Stay at home like the rest of us are doing for New Year's.

[GoldenLizard 109]

13 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

FFS, Dude. Don't travel. The numbers are horrible. Stay at home like the rest of us are doing for New Year's.

 

[Space Cowboy 1,366]

36 minutes ago, GoldenLizard said:

 

One more thing, how does MV state enforce this if as @Space cowboy says there are no border checks between states in Germany?

 

It‘s not an enforcement.  It is an appeal to people‘s sense of civic-mindedness.  Border checks and bans would be a major infringement on Article 11 of the German Constitution.

 

It COULD happen, but it hasn‘t yet, and I seriously doubt it will.

[BethAnnBitt 1,581]

24 minutes ago, GoldenLizard said:

Here are the rules, in English.  You will see that there’s “a plea to refrain from private trips.”

https://www.baden-wuerttemberg.de/fileadmin/redaktion/dateien/PDF/Coronainfos/201222_Lockdown_Dec_Jan_EN.PDF

I live in BW, on the Bodensee, and the numbers in BW have not been good, although they will vary depending on the precise location.  Our evening curfew begins at 8 pm, whereas I believe it’s 9 pm in cosmopolitan Munich.  There’s a reason for stayin’ put.  😂   I’m not your mother, but if I were I would suggest that you avoid unnecessary travel as our government has asked us to do.  Believe me, none of us are enjoying this.   

 

 

[Space Cowboy 1,366]

2 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

 it’s 9 pm in cosmopolitan Munich.

 

 

 

[engelchen 12,472]

25 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said:

 

It‘s not an enforcement.  It is an appeal to people‘s sense of civic-mindedness.  Border checks and bans would be a major infringement on Article 11 of the German Constitution.

 

It COULD happen, but it hasn‘t yet, and I seriously doubt it will.

 

Tell that to MV. They were stopping cars with out of state plates and questioning the drivers about their purpose in MV during the spring. I heard that a colleague of mine with a second home there ended up making it her Hauptwohnsitz to get around the restrictions. 

[Space Cowboy 1,366]

4 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

Tell that to MV. They were stopping cars with out of state plates and questioning the drivers about their purpose in MV during the spring. I heard that a colleague of mine with a second home there ended up making it her Hauptwohnsitz to get around the restrictions. 

 

I don‘t doubt you, but doing that was clearly exceeding their authority.  Freedom of Movement is enshrined in the Federal Constitution, and individual States cannot override that.

 

There is no way that anyone here in the West would allow that to happen.

[engelchen 12,472]

41 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said:

 

I don‘t doubt you, but doing that was clearly exceeding their authority.  

 

Not necessarily. 

 

41 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said:

Freedom of Movement is enshrined in the Federal Constitution, and individual States cannot override that.

 

Quote

Grundgesetz für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Art 11 

(1) Alle Deutschen genießen Freizügigkeit im ganzen Bundesgebiet.

(2) Dieses Recht darf nur durch Gesetz oder auf Grund eines Gesetzes und nur für die Fälle eingeschränkt werden, in denen eine ausreichende Lebensgrundlage nicht vorhanden ist und der Allgemeinheit daraus besondere Lasten entstehen würden oder in denen es zur Abwehr einer drohenden Gefahr für den Bestand oder die freiheitliche demokratische Grundordnung des Bundes oder eines Landes, zur Bekämpfung von Seuchengefahr, Naturkatastrophen oder besonders schweren Unglücksfällen, zum Schutze der Jugend vor Verwahrlosung oder um strafbaren Handlungen vorzubeugen, erforderlich ist.

 

Constitutional law has never really interested me, but it does seem possible under certain conditions. I know for a fact that it was under consideration in March as a possible option, however, I don't know how much traction the idea had.

 

41 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said:

There is no way that anyone here in the West would allow that to happen.

 

Desperate times require desperate measures. If you'd told me last year that certain parts of Germany would have a curfew and a restriction on drinking in public on New Year's Eve, I'd have thought you'd gone of the deep end. 

 

 

[Space Cowboy 1,366]

1 hour ago, engelchen said:

 

Not necessarily. 

 

 

 

Constitutional law has never really interested me, but it does seem possible under certain conditions. I know for a fact that it was under consideration in March as a possible option, however, I don't know how much traction the idea had.

 

ItI IS possible, but only if the Bundesrat agrees.  As I said, States cannot legally override the Federal Constitution.

 

 

1 hour ago, engelchen said:

 

 

Desperate times require desperate measures. If you'd told me last year that certain parts of Germany would have a curfew and a restriction on drinking in public on New Year's Eve, I'd have thought you'd gone of the deep end. 

 

 

 

Agreed, but...I don‘t mean to go all balticus on you; however, we are not even close to that point.  This pandemic is serious, but it is not yet crippling.   If my neighbor, who works every day in Wiesbaden (neighboring state), were to come back with an illness that infected my entire building and killed half my neighbors, then yeah - consider suspending Article 11.

 

Until then - if they try, it will be time for Germans to dig the buried WWII ordnance out of their gardens and start a shooting war.

 

(Old joke - why do the Germans pour oil on their gardens?  To keep the guns from rusting.)

 

 

 

[lunaCH 968]

5 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

This pandemic is serious, but it is not yet crippling.

Though try telling that to someone who has lost someone this year to covid.  There will be people who will never recover from the pandemic, be it for family or health (both physical and mental) reasons.

[balticus 1,849]

8 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

Tell that to MV. They were stopping cars with out of state plates and questioning the drivers about their purpose in MV during the spring. I heard that a colleague of mine with a second home there ended up making it her Hauptwohnsitz to get around the restrictions. 

 

As far as I know, there are a lot of Poles who cross the border to work in Germany during the week.   It would be interesting to know how these cases will be handled.

 

5 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

Agreed, but...I don‘t mean to go all balticus on you; however, we are not even close to that point.  

 

😇

[lunaCH 968]

10 minutes ago, balticus said:

As far as I know, there are a lot of Poles who cross the border to work in Germany during the week.   It would be interesting to know how these cases will be handled.

The borders have never closed in either direction. There are restrictions on movement. Cross-border workers remain largely unaffected by these restrictions, though longer queueing times may be experienced due to checks especially during rush hours. Border crossings will be quieter during the day as leisure and shopping activities are restricted.

[balticus 1,849]

30 minutes ago, lunaCH said:

The borders have never closed in either direction. There are restrictions on movement. Cross-border workers remain largely unaffected by these restrictions, though longer queueing times may be experienced due to checks especially during rush hours. Border crossings will be quieter during the day as leisure and shopping activities are restricted.

 

The Polish border was restricted back in the Spring. 

 

My point was different though.   If the authorities in MV can notice Berlin licence plates, they will surely notice Polish plates.  

[SpiderPig 9,587]

Since you have quoted Luna...  I see she says borders have never been closed..

 

Can she/he explain what happened last week in the French /UK border closures or was I mistaken?   

[lunaCH 968]

7 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Since you have quoted Luna...  I see she says borders have never been closed..

Can she/he explain what happened last week in the French /UK border closures or was I mistaken?

We were talking about German borders.