Expert advice regards to relocation to Germany

145 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

The definition of cosmopolitan is not very clear, but IMO Munich is too small, too conservative and too traditional in order to be qualified as cosmopolitan. My Bavarian colleague who is born and raised here and who travelled a lot agrees. 

 

That's how I would describe Munich too, conservative and traditional.  A lovely city, certainly, I've visited a number of times, but I've never lived there.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

The definition of cosmopolitan is not very clear, but IMO Munich is too small, too conservative and too traditional in order to be qualified as cosmopolitan. My Bavarian colleague who is born and raised here and who travelled a lot agrees. 

 

Save your breath, the OP is not interested in facts that contradict her version of reality. What would you know? You only live there. :blink:

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

The definition of cosmopolitan is not very clear, but IMO Munich is too small, too conservative and too traditional in order to be qualified as cosmopolitan. My Bavarian colleague who is born and raised here and who travelled a lot agrees. 

Fair enough.. WHY not ! we all have different opinion and feelings.. 

20 hours ago, balticus said:

 

I agree with the other comments about Munich's degree of cosmopolitanism.  

 

 

Apparently, the Europaschule program was the only program of its type in Europe and was being considered as a template in other major EU 7-8 years ago.

 

In my oldest's age group, there have been roughly 10-15 kids who have enrolled (through the years) without speaking much German, and they were able to spend around half the day in their native language while learning German.   The teachers (who were not generally flexible people) were really flexible and focused on getting those kids up to speed without stigmatizing them.   My kids go to German-SomeOtherLanguage schools.   Some of the people on TT have kids in the German-English schools.    There seems to be a general consensus on the Berlin threads that depending on the area, it might be a mistake to send your kids to a normal public school.  

 

There is information about the program in several languages here:   https://www.berlin.de/sen/bildung/schule/besondere-schulangebote/staatliche-europaschule/  (page down until you see the appropriate flag to read in your language).  

 

 

Thanks I'll check out the link..

 

21 hours ago, LukeSkywalker said:

Very cosmopolitan? Who told you that? It's basically a big village which I like personally.

Luke if you don't know the village you are living in ?? that is your shortcoming - sorry mate !.. Munich  is cosmopolitan..

even tho you don't think so !!

 

23 hours ago, EastnWest said:

Thank  you.. tackling all the areas for me!

Thanks I'll check out!

Emkay  took your advise and I sent message to GoldenLizard :) Cheers

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to live in Munich and now i live in Berlin. Munich is very beautiful and clean but very expensive ( was paying double the rent for half the size of an apartment there. Even the bread rolls are double the price there :P )

But Berlin is definitely more cosmopolitan. I rarely heard english being spoken in a public space in Munich where as some Baristas in Berlin might not even speak german. There are many startups here and in many of them, english is the default language - atleast in the ones i had worked / am working thus ruining my chance to practice my B2 level german :D

The job market in the IT sector in these pandemic times is not too rosy and the relocation packet offered by our company is minimal ( so people who have really good reasons to come to Germany - relations / or coming from worse places, are opting for it ) . Even the foreign office is very slow in responding to the visa and other paperwork.

Beside all the points mentioned by everyone else, one big factor is also Covid pandemic and how it will evolve next year between vaccines and the new strain coming across the english channel - and so, to disturb an applecart unless there is an emergency is not advisable.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, RajeshG said:

Munich is very beautiful and clean but very expensive ( was paying double the rent for half the size of an apartment there. Even the bread rolls are double the price there

Sounds almost like Switzerland. Just replace double with triple. :lol: 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 29/12/2020, 23:08:31, yesterday said:

That's why I say, its very hard to define what  cosmopolitan  real means, all the definitions hard to define in terms of measurable items, only counting can be done and what does that mean

So basically cosmopolitan is just a feeling on how you like things, nothing more

 

On 29/12/2020, 23:12:29, Space Cowboy said:

 

That‘s right.  One of the most „cosmopolitan“ cities I have ever visited is Tokyo.  It is 99% native/ethnic Japanese.

 

Just shows fuzzy and flexible the word is in how people use and mean it (which is my experience, too). Cosmopolitan means something like 'international' but with nationalism washed out, perhaps a more jet-set way (if in thought rather than practice). See for a list of 'likely' candidates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network#Alpha Doesn't mean everyone there is cosmopolitan, but where you are more likely to meet, since they are interconnected by trade and finance. 

 

And indeed cosmopolitan refers originally to people who view themselves as such. Cosmo + polis (as in metropolitan) = an inhabitant of the 'universal city'.  The way the word is used tends to apply more to affluent people, maybe those who work for multinationals or banks and such, or perhaps academics (Appiah is well spoken, worth reading or listening to). If you consider it positively, you're probably affluent or literate. If not, you may be poorer or populist. It's not so much Chinese take aways and taco trucks, but Kenyan sushi, Japanese cumbia (it exists, look it up!), Peruvian potato stalls, Swedish moose wool boutiques, Louis Vuitton with [insert your local attraction here] pasted on it, all on the same street, and likely staffed by suburbanite locals who know little about the countries mentioned, not that it matters. It need not all be pricey and pretentious, since it's really about feeling. Your Filipino nurse with siblings in Hong Kong, Kyoto, Dubai and Toronto may well be cosmopolitan too, whether she thinks of it very actively or not. Threadbare cosmopolitans certainly exist. Somewhere in Bohemia, I think. 

 

It's relative too. Munich is certainly cosmopolitan compared to Chemnitz or Duisburg, but certainly not Sydney or London, or even Berlin. Even Berlin is parochial compared to Sydney or London.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, alderhill said:

Just shows fuzzy and flexible the word is in how people use and mean it (which is my experience, too). Cosmopolitan means something like 'international' but with nationalism washed out, perhaps a more jet-set way (if in thought rather than practice).

 

My RW-leaning BIL insists that he's cosmopolitan because he's been to places like Thailand, Dom Rep, and Cuba. He never made it beyond the walls of his all-inclusive resorts, but he's been there.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By most definitions I can find on the internet cosmopolitan is 

 

Just means the most amount of people from different nations, so the most  cosmopolitan  place would be a village of about 220 people, who come from each nation around the world, who accept each other and learn from each other. 

 

But hey everybody knowns Munich is the most  cosmopolitan  place in the world ;), dont shot the messenger

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, alderhill said:

Just shows fuzzy and flexible the word is in how people use and mean it.

Think you just described intellectual corruption. It is not just that one word. It is how people distort the meaning of language to manipulate others.

 

Concrete example coming up. Please discontinue reading if you are devoutly Christian and could be offended by someone casting aspersions on your faith.

 

Here goes...

 

When the curate told intelligent and educated people in the 20th century that when they cite The Creed, the meaning of the word BELIEVE comes from the latin CREDO, which in turn is related to COR which is the heart and that if we cannot believe the Creed in the literal, rational sense (oh dear, virgin birth), we should believe it in a different way, relating the word believe to the heart, so that I believe in Jesus becomes I heart Jesus (spot that new verb). He explained that to heart Jesus was to wish to believe in Jesus, cos that is what your heart wants...

 

Oh dear, off topic. Thread diversion.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

 

My RW-leaning BIL insists that he's cosmopolitan because he's been to places like Thailand, Dom Rep, and Cuba. He never made it beyond the walls of his all-inclusive resorts, but he's been there.

 

Hah. Right wing and cosmopolitan sort of cancel each other out, at least the blood and soil types. Capital Must Flow worshippers could still pass. I guess it shows that on some level he still views it positively, or the status of being seen as cosmopolitan. Which is any any case not a typical right-wing stance, what with rootless wanderers being responsible for everything bad in the world.

 

2 hours ago, yesterday said:

By most definitions I can find on the internet cosmopolitan is 

 

Just means the most amount of people from different nations,

 

That is definitely an oversimplification to the point of being, err, wrong. An airport park'n'fly is not an auto show just because they are all together in the same place. But it is still possible for a village of 200 to be cosmopolitan. I think then more of gated community in Palo Alto.   

 

Munich could be cosmo, depending on your comparisons and what circles you move in. But most here say it is not really, and IMO I agree. Its strengths lie elsewhere. Others have said it already, but I agree that OP is in for a rude awakening... :unsure: 

 

1 hour ago, optimista said:

Think you just described intellectual corruption. It is not just that one word. It is how people distort the meaning of language to manipulate others.

 

Oh dear, off topic. Thread diversion.

 

Of course. But it can vary whether it's entirely intentional or just a by-product of the pretzel logic that results from cognitive dissonance. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is anything but. "Xi Jinping thought on socialism with Chinese characteristics for a new era" is essentially a blank cheque for CPC global manifest destiny, not that the average Chinese citizen is allowed to have any opinion on such gobbledigook.

 

Religion has sort of finger-wagged itself into a corner. Even as a kid, I found it highly suspect being forced to chant a creed about what 'we' believe... 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hi there,
 
We have the opportunity to work remotely within Germany therefore, we have a choice of living location ( Our head office will be in Munich).. Our shortlist needs to match closes to our requirements.
 
If you have ANY RECENT knowledge of these  areas ( such as currently living there) please reply Otherwise, keep your peace forever :)

We are a family of 4 and I have 2 children age of 7 and 12 years old... We are hoping to find vibrant/multicultural place to settle in (not sleepy town)

 

We are more focusing South of Germany at this stage (except Munich/Bavaria ) such as ;

-Baden Wurttemberg area (Freiburg+Tubingen+Heidelberg etc..)

& MAYBE Frankfurt + Rhineland and Saarland area 
 
* We are NOT interested in PRIVATE OR INTERNATIONAL school so please don't advise us such path..
 We are interested in PUBLIC schools (for Primary and Secondary school-age kids. My children very much into art/design  and academically they are above-average students so not sure about Gymnasium path either)
 
1- We would like to find out which city/area has a better school system in terms of supporting non-German speaking students ( in terms of language and integration program) If you living one of these areas and had a good experience please share and Can you mention the name of your school? 
 
(PS. We are not interested in Munich and Berlin due to this fact - because I read in the most posts that pretty much no support system exist or very poor/little support to English speaking children! so wondering What about other areas/parts of Germany 'esp. South of Germany '?)
 
2- Housing  ??  esp. furnished rental properties within these locations?
How hard to get furnished rental ( such as minimum 120sqm apartment or detached house/townhouse)
Any good agent or organisation that you recommend me within these locations to contact ?? 
 
Thanks for your valuable feedback which was directing my specific questions.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that there are too many schools in Germany that cater to arrogant parents and children.

With your profile I would suggest an English public school.

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...deleted my response, as I realized this poster has previously asked most of these questions and received answers.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Space Cowboy said:

...deleted my response, as I realized this poster has previously asked most of these questions and received answers.

 

Yup, there's no such animal as the public school that caters to international families that the OP is looking for. Public schools in Germany conduct all official business in German - even the bilingual ones. And children have to speak both languages to be admitted to the latter.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankfurt is pretty multicultural and in my opinion vibrant. I heard half of it is made up of foreigners, but you do need German to get by (understandably!). Now in terms of housing. It is hard to find housing in Frankfurt. You may need to move outside. A 65 sq meter (3 room apartment which equals 2 bedrooms), is roughly 1000 euros before nebenkosten. You can definitely find cheaper if you are lucky and search hard enough but if you are looking for anything well connected to transit, you should be prepared to pay a high price. You are looking for 120 sq meters, now you can search in immobilienscout and try your luck. Let me warn you, if you have a foreign name (especially a Turkish or middle eastern sounding or looking one) you are going to have much more trouble finding something regardless of what passport you carry and where you were actually born and raised. Just so you are realistic...  https://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/de/hessen/frankfurt-am-main/wohnung-mieten?livingspace=100.0-120.0&enteredFrom=result_list  

 

You need to be realistic. 120 sq m in a large area, in the south, with foreigner support... this combination doesn't typically go together. Things tend to be smaller in Germany than N. America and Australia. Living spaces are much smaller. You can get bigger but it will eat a significant chunk of your budget. Not sure if furnished apartments are a thing here. I have an Indian friend, who rented one but it was much smaller (50 sq m) and she has one child. 

 

I cannot help you with schools as I have no kids. Public schools are a hit or miss from what I heard. Koeln has a lot of immigrant families maybe there are more options there. Things are online now anyway and even kids born in Germany to non German parents (with poorer language skills) are struggling. Heck even the Germans are struggling! 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said:

...deleted my response, as I realized this poster has previously asked most of these questions and received answers.

Really, so they thought just asking again would bring different answers?

That isn't looking for information, that is looking for confirmation. 

 

Thanks for the tip though, I won't bother answering.

 

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Furnished rentals are not all that popular or common in Germany. At least not the size you are looking for and generally not outside large cities. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bear in mind that if you move to the Stuttgart/Tubingen area, you will be competing for housing with US military folks, too.  Also, traffic in that area is pretty horrendous, although I enjoyed my six total years down there.

 

Tubingen, in particular, is a fabulous town.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, maxie said:

Furnished rentals are not all that popular or common in Germany. At least not the size you are looking for and generally not outside large cities. 

 

And only at premium 'ripping off urgent foreigners with corporate expense accounts' rates. Furnished rentals are unusual and typically only for 'short-term' dire need, though they will happily take your sacks of money.

 

English school access does not miraculously increase when you look at smaller and smaller cities. Since you posted before OP, what are your kids doing for German language instruction now? As has been mentioned (in umpteen other threads) your kids will need to learn German, period. Unless you want private schools, there's no going around it. 

 

Vibrant and multicultural... hmmm, well, have you looked at London? Amsterdam? Paris?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, I know space cowboy has said all this has been answered before, but the OP is basically asking people for an area in Germany that is built up and international enough that the normal german speaking public school system would support non german speaking kids but also not berlin or Munich.

 

The whole things just reads as being unrealistic. That's not even taking in to consideration the age f the kids and their need to get up to speed in german in what would be a very short time.

 

Throw in the living space requirement (also we have no expenditure estimation for the OP) which cost-wise works against their expressed wishes for school etc.

In any area large enough to be international and have that kind of support available in the school system is going to be expensive.  

I know they have ruled out berlin and munich but they are good examples of large international area, and they are expensive. I'm not even sure it would be even easy to find that kind of living space anywhere near the center of those cities. 

 

Personally, given the ages of the kids, the pandemic (there is no way the kids are going to learn German effectively at home with their parents) and the living requirements, I can't see it being possible for them.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now