Expert advice regards to relocation to Germany

145 posts in this topic

Hi all,

 

We are planning to relocate from Sydney to Munich middle of 2021. I read previous posts regards to relocation packages BUT MOST OF THEM old dated (not recent picture of relocation topic)

 

Here is a short story of us. We are a family of 4 (kids age 7 and 12), my husband, senior developer/ software engineer speciality of Drupal system and Network security and knowledge of B2 level German. He is applying for senior-level roles in Munich (local or international IT companies) but we are not sure what is acceptable to negotiate with employer ( even tho sound bit crazy about our timing - corona and Australia is one safest country at the moment to stay away from EU BUT we need to because we want our kids to start secondary school (Year 7) in Europe  public system, not private school - btw  both kids speak zero German..) He just started having interviews and one of the employers only offering EUR 5K  and not negotiable (which I found Soooo low - lousy offer to consider esp. if you exporting talent from another side of the world you need to pay for it.. BUT then again I am not sure the latest situation Europe business market last 15 years (esp. newly joined EU members and many IT professionals from countries like East block+ India  with less hiring cost !!) My Q's are ;

 

> Do you know any company offers fair & strong relocation package to their employers?

 

> So far what I read I came up with these 3 points.. Do you think acceptable to discuss or Am I asking too much?

 

Relocation package between EUR10.000 - 12.000 (which will cover flight tickets+ and removalist cost bringing personal items via air freight and sea freight LCL) 

+  arranging Minimin 6 weeks temp accommodation in Munich (furnished service apartment or AirBnB until finding permanent accommodation)

+ arranging relocation agent in Munich for us to handle all our requirements and help us out (registrations of government dept/converting driving licence+ finding permanent accommodation and all other Ad Hoc) My children and I don't speak German so I will be needing this service to settle in quickly

 

I would really appreciate to hear yours civilized advice and  valuable comments (some posts not so polite wording) Thanks

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Top right side of the page is a search box...

 

All your questions have been asked before... 

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SpiderPig.. I also used searched section for this topic...Replies goes back to 2009 - 2011 - 2016 and 2017

I need to hear/read a recent situation and offers/conditions  etc not 3+ year back

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OK...

Then expect few replies...

 

Not moch has changed... VAT has gone down.. Housing Rent/Costs have gone up... Pubs are shut... and Epstein didnt kill himself.. 

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6 minutes ago, EastnWest said:

SpiderPig.. I also used searched section for this topic...Replies goes back to 2009 - 2011 - 2016 and 2017

I need to hear/read a recent situation and offers/conditions  etc not 3+ year back

 

What is the point? The older posts are very clear that your husband will not earn enough to afford rent in an area with good schools nor for sufficient private tutoring. The only thing that has really changed is that it is even more difficult for foreign children to meet local kids and find private tutors.

 

 

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Why Germany? How old are you and your husband?

 

In a nutshell your venture is going to be fraught with hassle owing to the famously awful bureaucracy, starting with permits... trying to get employed from the other side of the world is, em... gonna be a challenge. If your husband is internationally saleable despite the world-wide economic outlook, I wonder why you don't consider Silicon Valley, USA, where you all speak the language at least.

 

Then, practical issues... like being fishes out of water in a hostile environment (it is) - cultural and linguistic problems gonna arise - and you have no support network... building one can take decades in Germany, you would be more dependent on your husband and that would change the balance of your relationship...

 

Spider Pig may not have expressed himself eloquently but I get his (blinkered) point. Do you? Englelchen is a fountain of freely flowing knowledge compared to the natives...

 

Sorry if this is not what you want to hear. The information on this forum may be a decade old but is still going to give you a valid broad picture of what the issues are. Read the stuff about homesickness and cultural differences, work colleagues and neighbours... IME Germany was all uphill and eventually I left, with no regrets.

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Sorry you're not getting the helpful comments you hoped for, @EastnWest, but you touched on it yourself: Germany is still in the middle of the second coronavirus wave and by all indications, still will be when you plan to move here - because it looks like there won't be enough vaccine to immunize the population to herd immunity levels until the fall at the earliest. Which makes your relocation plans ambitious to say the least.

 

Salaries and relocation packages for German software engineers are probably nothing like what you're expecting, unless your husband is going for a middle/upper management position. Housing in Munich is among the most expensive in Germany and your children won't be able to start in public schools without German. They'll be put into "Willkommensklassen" with other recent immigrants until they get a good grasp of the language, which can take up to a year or even longer

 

Last but not least, Bavarian schools already divide kids into Gymnasium/Gesamtschule tracks at the end of 4th grade, so the deadline you've set yourself for your older child's schooling doesn't really apply.

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I have a general question ...

 

As your husband is not being "Head hunted" but in a way "Asking for a job"...   Why would a potential employer offer a package worth possibly 30 thousand euro to employ your Hubby? 

 

 

https://www.germanschoolsydney.com/      :o

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Thanks optimista.. I am open to any comment as long as expressed within certain manners.

WHY

 

1- originally from the Mediterranean  so we like to be close to home

2- My husband speaks intermediate-level German so we have only 2 choice (Germany and/or Switzerland.. personally I prefer CH due to many reasons mostly my kids' future education and tax purposes but job opportunities limited in CH )

3- I am not considering any English speaking country (the US, UK or Ireland) otherwise we stay within AU (hubby has good position but it is local company plus we have our own property in here)

 

 

Believe me Optimista last 13 years we are already living very isolated land  a bit of cacoon lifestyle :) no support network and not so great social connection (everything in Australia on the surface.. small talks no deep conversations what so ever) I guess I like to travel with my kids and able to show them culture and history of EU (which we don't have much in here) and being the Mediterranean  able to enjoy sun/sea and deep conversation (after corona) But Thanks I know you are saying ( I/we all consider those points too but it feels like we will gain more in the long run (plus we can come back anytime.. I guess our timing is not great but I don't have the luxury to delay it because of my kids school and their young age - I like my oldest to start secondary school in EU)

 

PS. we are both late 40's (almost 50) :) 

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14 minutes ago, EastnWest said:

everything in Australia on the surface.. small talks no deep conversations what so ever

Have you ever met any Germans? Because a lot of expats say the same things about them - aside from the small talk part. Many people have trouble making any connections at all.

 

14 minutes ago, EastnWest said:

I like my oldest to start secondary school in EU

 

Like I said in my previous post, if you're setting your sights on Munich, you've missed that deadline by 2 years already and if you decide to go for public schools, your kids won't be able to start regular lessons until they learn German.

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Ah, now we see where you're coming from. Fair enough. Are you EU citizens ?

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29 minutes ago, EastnWest said:

2- My husband speaks intermediate-level German so we have only 2 choice (Germany and/or Switzerland.. personally I prefer CH due to many reasons mostly my kids' future education and tax purposes but job opportunities limited in CH )

 

Quote

 

 

Well, last time I looked, Austria was German speaking. 

Only about a third of CH is sort of German speaking.

 

Here in Hamburg they put subtitles in the news programs when interviewing the Swiss...

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The age of the kids is a thing.

 

In schooling terms they are not both 'a young age'.

 

The 7 year old should be OK if immersive language learning is something he or she is up for, but at 12 the older one is at a much more difficult age. It is absolutely not impossible that a 12 year old will become fluent enough to be able to successfully join in with school after a year or two, but it is unlikely (again not impossible) that they will achieve the standard they would have in their original tongue.

 

The separation of the kids into different levels of schooling (which happens after Grundschule in most places now) isn't the problem people usually portray - the system allows for movement from one school type to another and particularly for kids who finish in one of the lower school types to then carry on in another school to gain the higher qualification, often taking longer to do so, none of which is a disaster. Whether the older child will feel OK about that is a different question.

 

It depends very much on your willingness and ability to help. The older one will require language coaching outside of school, and the sooner that starts the better - it'll be on Zoom anyway, so no reason to wait. In normal times they would need to be attending as many activities outside of school in German as possible - the younger one library storytimes etc as well as sport, craft, whatever you can find, and the older one whatever they are interested in but in German. Unfortunately at the moment all of these things are impossible, so your timeline is further stretched.

 

It is not an impossible project, but one which is going to need extreme stamina and input. The language barrier is real, and although the wave of newcomers after the war in Syria has forced the Germans to deal with non-German speakers in their schools much more thoroughly than they did before, this has not necessarily resulted in better outcomes for those children. 

 

If the older child is massively enthusiastic about the whole thing and can't wait to start over in a foreign language, then you have a shout at making it work, and as you say yourself, you can always go back to Australia if it all goes pear shaped, so in that sense it could be an amazing adventure to try.

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Yes  my kids and I have triple citizenship and my hubby, dual citizenship application in the process due to being married with me.

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El Jeffo that exactly my point  I have been (will be coming from ) in a socially isolated environment and Germany hardly effect me (been there done that) PLUS I aware most points that you made in regards to housing/language and education system etc.. (did my homework and still doing it..)

 

That's why I am asking the relocation package condition to reduce my stress level first 2 years

We are ALL immigrants one way another (economically or refuge or X reason so.. I see no problem my kids exploding themselves immigrant environment.. I am not a privileged citizen so   I don't think my kids should feel this way either..  Learning real-life an early age makes them strong.. I am not after  Gymnasium because my oldest smart girl and she is very creative and into art (fashion design) that is another reason we would like to move EU (Australia not right place to study fashion design) As I said I have valid reasons..Thanks

 

 

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47 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

I have a general question ...

 

As your husband is not being "Head hunted" but in a way "Asking for a job"...   Why would a potential employer offer a package worth possibly 30 thousand euro to employ your Hubby? 

 

 

https://www.germanschoolsydney.com/      :o

 No SpiderPIG he is not asking job..  He is applying for suitable senior level and managerial level  IT positions BUT each company policies vary so I like to find out recent trend (negotiation of a relocation package and competitive package) and YES he is a good senior developer with the experience of 20+ year (he runs his own consultancy company on the side too) he is not new refreshment so making sure he gets paid accordingly market figure!

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34 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

 

 

Well, last time I looked, Austria was German speaking. 

Only about a third of CH is sort of German speaking.

 

Here in Hamburg they put subtitles in the news programs when interviewing the Swiss...

Yes german speaking country but we don't prefer Austria.

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so, let's recap a Dutch-Australian-Mediterranean family of four, all speaking English (with Australian undertones) and one person has a B2 level (medium rare) grasp of German, want to move to Germany. Sounds fun!

 

Why not? The Pandemic is still going strong here (whereas in Australia it seems to have gone down quite a bit). That's ok - they like to get some extra training for their immune system :)

I agree, Germany is totally beautiful! Especially Bavaria, and the capital thereof, Munich - it's the best place an Earth, no doubt. That's why everybody and their brother want to live there. That's why housing is next to impossible to find - at least not affordable housing - unless you bring enough money to simply buy a house. Not directly in town, though. I'd recommend somewhere further out in the South-East region, within S-Bahn reach. 
 

As for jobs in anything technology, Munich is definitely the best place to be - there are plenty of choices for people with just the right (and that means exactly right) skillset. Only the "one in a million" type candidates can be picky about what they want their salary to be. Everybody else better start out kinda modest, until you prove your worth and build a network. Shouldn't be a problem, if you bought your house flat out, you'll be living rent-free. Just your utilities, groceries, maybe a small car, kids go to public school for free... just bring some savings, to tie you over for the first year or two, you'll be fine.


What are the benefits to living in Germany, as opposed to other places? The country is relatively organized (maybe just a touch overly organized). People are relatively peaceful, minding their own business (maybe just a little bit too much minding their own business, if you're looking to bond and integrate). Everything is close by, Germany is relatively small (maybe a bit too close by, overcrowded). Public health care and public schools are good enough for most people, better than in other countries I have lived in (just don't expect anything fancy anywhere).

 

So, to sum it up, if you prepare well, you may do just fine in Munich - but I really don't understand, where you would gain anything over Sydney.

 

Good luck :)

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