How many of you will trust Covid-19 vaccine with own lives?

How many of you will trust Covid-19 vaccine with own lives?   128 votes

  1. 1. How many of you will trust Covid-19 vaccine with own lives?

    • I will do it, this vaccine is made by doctors, and they know how is done and if is efficient.
      85
    • I will not do it, doctors got different opinions about side effects, for the moment they don't trust this vaccine, why should I do it?
      6
    • Vaccine? For Covid-19? GTFOOH! Doctors still learn the virus and you want to do a vaccine? Are you insane?
      3
    • They plan to force people to do the vaccine, in order to fly, otherwise you cannot fly or travel internationally without one.
      11
    • I am ok without one, I am still healthy, after 8-9 months of ''quarantine living'. With mask and disinfectants who needs a vaccine?
      2
    • I will do it, but in a year or so, first persons are ''lab rats'' testers. I don't trust them yet.
      19
    • I was already sick. No need for a vaccine for me.
      2

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2,020 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

You mean the doctor sucks because there is not yet enough information to make an informed decision?  

 

No.  I mean the doctor sucks when his medical advice is no different than a doorknob.

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

He took AZ because that was what was available at the moment.

 

Just like millions of other people who still don't have a choice.

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8 hours ago, catjones said:

No.  I mean the doctor sucks when his medical advice is no different than a doorknob.

What do you expect him to say if there is no way (for him nor anybody else) to know?

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9 hours ago, catjones said:

 

No.  I mean the doctor sucks when his medical advice is no different than a doorknob.

A Doctor is not omnipotent.

It´s better that they admit they´re not sure than give you totally the wrong advice.

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On 6/3/2021, 9:18:34, MadManEarle said:

 

Who is ignoring what, 

On 6/13/2021, 7:42:17, snowingagain said:
23 hours ago, JG52 said:

 

I changed my Apple account to Germany so I could install the CovPass application and upload my vaccination certificates.  Over the past ten years or so, I changed my account registration from USA to Germany as needed for the desired apps.  This is a bit of a pain the first few times, but hasn't affected any of my installed apps or podcast subscriptions, and I still receive the updates when published.


I have tried to change to Germany, but it tells me I can’t because I have subscriptions through Apple TV.  
 

I’ll try again, though.  So far, it hasn’t been an issue.  At the hotel, we just showed the paper.

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12 hours ago, jeba said:

What do you expect him to say if there is no way (for him nor anybody else) to know?

 

Well, actually, somebody does know.  Swelling of the legs is not listed as a side effect on the Pfizer vaccine, nor is it listed on the other vaccines as well.  The doctor should know there is an absence of this side effect and advise accordingly.

There are no recorded instances of many, many, many physical maladies that happen daily and have no correlation to the vaccine.  The doctor's indecision and his patient's delay in getting the second shot may do more damage....see Hippocratic Oath.

Since the two events seem unrelated (nothing is 100%), I would concentrate on the many causes for leg swelling.  Not listed below is "Vaccine".

 

Factors related to fluid buildup include:

  1. Acute kidney failure
  2. Cardiomyopathy (problem with the heart muscle)
  3. Chemotherapy
  4. Chronic kidney disease
  5. Cirrhosis (scarring of the liver)
  6. Deep vein thrombosis (DVT) (DVT)
  7. Heart failure
  8. Hormone therapy
  9. Lymphedema (blockage in the lymph system)
  10. Nephrotic syndrome (damage to small filtering blood vessels in the kidneys)
  11. Obesity
  12. Pain relievers, such as ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin IB) or naproxen (Aleve)
  13. Pericarditis (inflammation of the tissue around the heart)
  14. Pregnancy
  15. Prescription medications, including some used for diabetes and high blood pressure
  16. Pulmonary hypertension
  17. Sitting for a long time, such as during airline flights
  18. Standing for a long time
  19. Thrombophlebitis (a blood clot that usually occurs in the leg)
  20. Venous insufficiency, chronic (leg veins with a problem returning blood to the heart)

                                                                                                         

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11 hours ago, Keleth said:

A Doctor is not omnipotent.

It´s better that they admit they´re not sure than give you totally the wrong advice.

 

waiting for certainty might take years or may never come.  sometimes the wrong advice is no advice at all.

we don't go to doctors for omnipotency, we go for their professional expertise.  medicine is rife with uncertainty.  no doctor is ever "sure", but to not offer a treatment or to refuse treatment is an abdication of their oath.

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59 minutes ago, catjones said:

 

waiting for certainty might take years or may never come.  sometimes the wrong advice is no advice at all.

we don't go to doctors for omnipotency, we go for their professional expertise.  medicine is rife with uncertainty.  no doctor is ever "sure", but to not offer a treatment or to refuse treatment is an abdication of their oath.

So it would be better if he said get the 2nd shot even though he doesn´t know if the 1st shot was the cause of the swelling ?

 

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1 hour ago, catjones said:

 

Well, actually, somebody does know.  Swelling of the legs is not listed as a side effect on the Pfizer vaccine, nor is it listed on the other vaccines as well. 

 

The vaccines are still experimental until we see what happens a couple of years out.   

1 hour ago, catjones said:

 

There are no recorded instances of many, many, many physical maladies that happen daily and have no correlation to the vaccine. 

 

Since the VAERS database has not really been given sufficient resources to function as a data repository with high integrity, we don't have a clear picture about how many people have swollen legs after vaccination.  

1 hour ago, catjones said:

 

The doctor's indecision and his patient's delay in getting the second shot may do more damage...see Hippocratic Oath.

 

From Wikipedia.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

 

I swear by Apollo Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture.

To hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood; when he is in need of money to share mine with him; to consider his family as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they want to learn it, without fee or indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the Healer’s oath, but to nobody else.

I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgment, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.[7] Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion. But I will keep pure and holy both my life and my art. I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein.

Into whatsoever houses I enter, I will enter to help the sick, and I will abstain from all intentional wrong-doing and harm, especially from abusing the bodies of man or woman, bond or free. And whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course of my profession, as well as outside my profession in my intercourse with men, if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such things to be holy secrets.

Now if I carry out this oath, and break it not, may I gain for ever reputation among all men for my life and for my art; but if I break it and forswear myself, may the opposite befall me.

 

For those Doctors who lapsed in their worship of  Apollo Healer, Asciepius, Higieia, and Panacea and all the other various g_ds and g_ddesses and are open to Latin, i would go with 

 

"primum non nocere" or "primum nil nocere." 

 

i.e. "first do no harm".  

 

 

1 hour ago, catjones said:

Since the two events seem unrelated (nothing is 100%), I would concentrate on the many causes for leg swelling.  Not listed below is "Vaccine".                                                 


I would recommend a podcast from Bret Weinsten talking to the father of mRNA vaccines, Robert Malone, but like most podcasts, it is more than 2 hours of conversation to get a few nuggets out.  

 

Apparently, the negative reactions to the vaccine are not uniform because the spike proteins which break off seem to cluster in different places in different people.    

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2 hours ago, catjones said:

 

Well, actually, somebody does know.  Swelling of the legs is not listed as a side effect on the Pfizer vaccine, nor is it listed on the other vaccines as well.  The doctor should know there is an absence of this side effect and advise accordingly.

There are no recorded instances of many, many, many physical maladies that happen daily and have no correlation to the vaccine.  The doctor's indecision and his patient's delay in getting the second shot may do more damage...see Hippocratic Oath.

Since the two events seem unrelated (nothing is 100%), I would concentrate on the many causes for leg swelling.  Not listed below is "Vaccine".

 

 

See "When to call 11" here: https://www.nhsinform.scot/covid-19-vaccine/the-vaccines/side-effects-of-the-coronavirus-vaccines - this seems to be a very rare AZ issue, and not related to Pfizer.

 

For AZ, also here: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-what-to-know-about-side-effects#Controversy-regarding-blood-clots

Some symptoms related to thromboembolic events include:

1. shortness of breath

2. chest pain

3. leg swelling

4. abdominal pain

5. neurological symptoms, including headaches and blurred vision

6. tiny blood spots beneath the skin beyond the vaccine injection site

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Keleth said:

So it would be better if he said get the 2nd shot even though he doesn´t know if the 1st shot was the cause of the swelling ?

 

 

Yes.  Perfect is the enemy of good (or current knowledge).

You mistaken assume there will be some research/investigation that will answer the question of swelling.  For all we know the tap person was, more likely, stung-bitten by an insect, been in the woods-garden and affected by some plant or eaten something that brought on an allergic reaction...all of which are known.  The one thing that isn't known is the vaccine that was given almost four weeks prior to symptoms.

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18 minutes ago, catjones said:

 

Yes.  Perfect is the enemy of good (or current knowledge).

You mistaken assume there will be some research/investigation that will answer the question of swelling.  For all we know the tap person was, more likely, stung-bitten by an insect, been in the woods-garden and affected by some plant or eaten something that brought on an allergic reaction...all of which are known.  The one thing that isn't known is the vaccine that was given almost four weeks prior to symptoms.

 

Just to be clear, I haven't been stung or bitten recently. I also haven't been in the woods or in a garden, and I haven't eaten any different foods lately. All of these possibilities have been gone over by both the doctor and the hospital.  The only thing out of the ordinary over the past weeks has been the vaccine, which is why the doctor is suspect. He hasn't said it's definitely the vaccine, but so far, with blood tests, urine tests, ultrasound scans, and other checks by the doctor and the hospital, there's not much left to go on. 

 

I probably will get the second shot because the risk of getting Covid-19 seems to be increasing again and that could be worse if I'm unlucky enough to get long Covid. 

 

My legs are back to normal today, but my knees are still slightly swollen and ache a bit. More blood tests on Monday.

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10 hours ago, catjones said:

I would concentrate on the many causes for leg swelling

You should rather have googled for "painful leg swelling starting in the knees in the absence of swelling of the lower legs, ankles and feet and without any other symptoms". That would have shown a very different result.

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11 hours ago, catjones said:

...to not offer a treatment or to refuse treatment is an abdication of their oath.

 

The Hippocratic Oath says: "First, do no harm."

Difficult to square with, for example, failed cancer treatments or breast implants on beautiful, perfectly functioning 20 year old breasts. You can get into the territory of "Let's try this, let's try that, we have nothing else to lose." Personally I am not a fan of medical harrassment and only do what is strictly necessary.

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2 hours ago, optimista said:

 

The Hippocratic Oath says: "First, do no harm."

 

Sorry, but no it doesn't.    In my opinion, it is still a worthwhile guideline to follow. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, balticus said:

For those Doctors who lapsed in their worship of  Apollo Healer, Asciepius, Higieia, and Panacea and all the other various g_ds and g_ddesses and are open to Latin, i would go with 

 

"primum non nocere" or "primum nil nocere." 

 

i.e. "first do no harm".  

 

3 hours ago, optimista said:

The Hippocratic Oath says: "First, do no harm."

 

1 hour ago, balticus said:

Sorry, but no it doesn't. 

 

Hmmm. 

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That statement is not within the Hippocratic Oath, and as this article points out it is not particularly meaningful within the context of real-time decision making.  What is most important is that physicians, and frankly all health professionals, neither overestimate their ability to promote healing, nor underestimate their ability to cause harm.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/first-do-no-harm-201510138421

 

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2 hours ago, kiplette said:

 

Hmmm. 

 

"primum non nocere" or "primum nil nocere." 

 

is an old saying in Latin not a direct quote from the Hippocratic Oath.

 

Google it if you have doubts.

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16 hours ago, Tap said:

I haven't been stung or bitten recently. I also haven't been in the woods or in a garden, and I haven't eaten any different foods lately.

 

That's the thing about allergic reactions: finding the source.  All the above could have taken place without your knowledge.  Consider the serious reaction some people have to the tiniest amounts of peanuts.  They might not even know they were exposed.  Poison Ivy can be spread as an allergic oil where someone else was in the woods and brought it home to you.  The only way to track down the culprits is to take a battery of allergy tests.

On the other hand, should you have the same condition after your second vaccine shot, you may end up in the JAMA Journal.  As a precaution, I would keep some medication nearby like Benadryl or whatever your doctor prescribes.

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