How many of you will trust Covid-19 vaccine with own lives?

How many of you will trust Covid-19 vaccine with own lives?   146 votes

  1. 1. How many of you will trust Covid-19 vaccine with own lives?

    • I will do it, this vaccine is made by doctors, and they know how is done and if is efficient.
      98
    • I will not do it, doctors got different opinions about side effects, for the moment they don't trust this vaccine, why should I do it?
      8
    • Vaccine? For Covid-19? GTFOOH! Doctors still learn the virus and you want to do a vaccine? Are you insane?
      3
    • They plan to force people to do the vaccine, in order to fly, otherwise you cannot fly or travel internationally without one.
      11
    • I am ok without one, I am still healthy, after 8-9 months of ''quarantine living'. With mask and disinfectants who needs a vaccine?
      2
    • I will do it, but in a year or so, first persons are ''lab rats'' testers. I don't trust them yet.
      20
    • I was already sick. No need for a vaccine for me.
      4

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3,392 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, balticus said:

  Many of the people on this board do not have kids or do not have kids of their own 

 

I have lots of those. They are in fact people not some other life form, and they are as able to understand the wider needs of the community as anyone.

 

There have been multiple ways in which young people can offer their time/enthusiasm to improve their situation/the wider situation, and not end up cut-off/frustrated and we have absolutely put ourselves out there to make sure that our youngsters are aware of those opportunities. 

 

They, like everyone, want to know that if they get run over by a car, there will be an ambulance to pick them up and a functional hospital to treat them, not some overburdened system full of old sick people with Corona clogging everything up. 

 

Italy and Spain happened. It was not pretty. One of my youngsters was in the UK and boyfriend's granny had a stroke and literally could not be admitted to hospital because there was no space. It was full of Covid patients. It definitely was not a situation which alowed for normal healthcare to continue.

 

Of course if you want to pretend that somehow it didn't happen like that, if there had been no restrictions we would just have carried on as normal with a few old/sick people snuffing it and healthcare would have somehow cracked on unaffected, then that's a land of unicorns and fairy dust which was sadly not on the map.

 

Hey ho.

 

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Just for the record, there was a lot of hospital chaos that was not reported in the French media... the powers that be were keen to pretend to the public that all was in hand and they were on top of the situation. But the people who were there tell a different story.

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2 hours ago, balticus said:

 

My family and i know two families here in Germany whose kids did not react to the lockdowns very well and needed inpatient Psychiatric treatment.   You have consistently shown yourself unwilling to engage in anything but moralizing and simplistic, binary thinking.    

You are saying that kids had a problem with the lockdown and the answer was to put them in hospital, where they have to stay, inside? Still inside but just somewhere else? 

 

Would it help if we pointed out that any problems those people have are very likely to be their own fault?

I mean, that's what you've been saying about other people for a while now. It has to be that as there are other kids etc who have managed the whole thing fine.

I'm going off your logic, those of us with a more balanced view of the world can well accept different people react to situations different ways. Your logic however is that these people have to be responsible in some way or other.

 

I don't normally answer stuff from you as it isn't worth the time but when you shoot yourself in the foot, either on purpose or unknowingly, I think it's ok to point that out so people can laugh. This post made my day*, I don't think I've seen a post on TT that descrines the posters previous posting style so on the nose like this was has. The competition was huge, yet you got to the top.

 

 

*You shooting yourself in the foot, the kids have my sympathy and I hope they recover soon and get back home.

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2 hours ago, balticus said:

There needs to be a balance of the health risks and a societal decision whether to sacrifice children and young adults for the safety of those who are over 80 years old or who have many comorbidities.

 

 

Young adults are the ones who seem to be suffering from Long Covid, after sometimes having fairly benign CoViD-19 symptoms beforehand. 

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13 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

It has to be that as there are other kids etc who have managed the whole thing fine.

 

I have two Nachhilfeschüler, who come separately - an 11 year old boy (5th class Gymnasium) and a 10 year old girl (4th class Grundschule). They managed fine all through the lockdowns (although I personally noticed the shortcomings of lockdown lessons in comparison to contact teaching in school). The boy is glad to be back in school regularly, but the girl after initially looking forward to it now prefers lockdown. She says her teacher is irritating, the boys keep disrupting lessons and they have to keep wearing the masks even in the schoolyard etc., etc., etc. But with puberty looming just around the corner she's a real little Zicke anyway. ;)

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I wonder which lockdown they keep talking about here, there was no real lockdown in Germany, it lasted a total of 3 or 5 days.  Yes, kids didn't go to school for a couple of months but there was no lockdown, they could go out and play any time they wanted.    Plenty of kids outside didn't even care about the social distancing or the household limits, and as far as I know no one was telling them anything.  Then after that they started going to school every second day.

 

Maybe in other countries, but Germany had probably the loosestestest "lockdown" in the world.

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1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

You are saying that kids had a problem with the lockdown and the answer was to put them in hospital, where they have to stay, inside? Still inside but just somewhere else? 

 

They had a problem with the long term social isolation resulting in clinical depression.

1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

Would it help if we pointed out that any problems those people have are very likely to be their own fault?

 

By "we" do you mean you and MUinEU?    

 

1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

I mean, that's what you've been saying about other people for a while now.

 

Not at all.   

 

1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

It has to be that as there are other kids etc who have managed the whole thing fine.

I'm going off your logic, those of us with a more balanced view of the world can well accept different people react to situations different ways. Your logic however is that these people have to be responsible in some way or other.

 

Restricted teenagers do not have a choice in the matter.

 

Adults leading unhealthy lifestyles MOSTLY (not 100%) do have a choice.    

 

1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

 

I don't normally answer stuff from you as it isn't worth the time but when you shoot yourself in the foot, either on purpose or unknowingly, I think it's ok to point that out so people can laugh. This post made my day*, I don't think I've seen a post on TT that descrines the posters previous posting style so on the nose like this was has. The competition was huge, yet you got to the top.

 

*You shooting yourself in the foot, the kids have my sympathy and I hope they recover soon and get back home.

 

You have fundamentally confused the difference between choices imposed upon teenagers and bad choices made by people who have options.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mackle said:

 

Young adults are the ones who seem to be suffering from Long Covid, after sometimes having fairly benign CoViD-19 symptoms beforehand. 

 

Do you have a number of long COVID symptoms to compare against substance abuse, child abuse, academic loss, suicides and depression?

 

Overall public health should be optimized and that requires a sense of proportion and perspective.

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23 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

I wonder which lockdown they keep talking about here, there was no real lockdown in Germany, it lasted a total of 3 or 5 days.  Yes, kids didn't go to school for a couple of months but there was no lockdown, they could go out and play any time they wanted.    Plenty of kids outside didn't even care about the social distancing or the household limits, and as far as I know no one was telling them anything.  Then after that they started going to school every second day.

 

Maybe in other countries, but Germany had probably the loosestestest "lockdown" in the world.

 

I am going to take a wild guess that your kids are not in a sports Verein.   

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1 hour ago, balticus said:

 

They had a problem with the long term social isolation resulting in clinical depression.

 

By "we" do you mean you and MUinEU?    

 

 

Not at all.   

 

 

Restricted teenagers do not have a choice in the matter.

 

Adults leading unhealthy lifestyles MOSTLY (not 100%) do have a choice.    

 

 

You have fundamentally confused the difference between choices imposed upon teenagers and bad choices made by people who have options.

 

 

I have a meme somewhere that sums up this post and what it is trying to do...

Ah, bringing another user in to it, sounds like said user got under your skin, as my answer did. Good, also fitting that you feel the need to redirect the conversation away from that foot you have put on your mouth.. Shows you slipped up and have been caught on the back foot.

I think people know the only reason to bring in an accusation of a duplicate account is to get this thread of posts removed.. 

 

Ah, here it is, it's an older meme but it still checks out...

logic.JPG.a273908ce882bd7876e65577f3c3ec



 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 6/9/2021, 7:11:56, Dembo said:

I like the suggestion that EU should "own" drug companies. That's really not what the EU is or what the EU does. 

 

At the end of the day had AZ not let down the EU and had delivered the promised doses none of this would have been a story. The criticism of VDL is that she didn't forsee this and didn't forsee that the UK would be given preferential treatment. But can you imagine the colours Brexiteers would have been turning if the EU had negotiated a contract with AZ that gave them priority over the UK? Damned if you do; damned if you don't: there would have been lots of complaints about the big bad EU throwing its weight around, but by not doing it, everyone attacks the big bad EU for not throwing its weight around enough.

 

 

 

This is democracy. The EU bureaucrats like to think of themselves as queens of England, but they aren't. Even not elected EU commissioners have to accept critics.

 

On 6/10/2021, 7:20:54, jeba said:

??? You know where Biontech is located, don´t you?

This actually adds insult to the injury. BioNTech had to ask an American company to do clinical trials, then American FDA approved the vaccine. Then it took another 10 days for EMA to read the results of clinical trials in America and approve it. Why 10 days? Because otherwise the people can come to conclusion that most EMA staff is useless and can be fired...

 

The EU and Germany has a very good pharma industry, this is true. However, this is not the achievement of the bureaucrats at all...

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59 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

This is democracy. The EU bureaucrats like to think of themselves as queens of England, but they aren't. Even not elected EU commissioners have to accept critics.

There have only been 8 Queens of England, not counting the ones who were just married to someone, and there are of course 27 comissioners. This makes me wonder how they share it out? Do they all try and be Queen Elisabeth I at the same time or does someone draw the short straw and end up having to be Empress Matlid (1102-1167), who nobody has ever heard of? 

 

Ursula von der Lyon looks a little bit like Lady Jane Grey don't you think?

https://www.thoughtco.com/women-rulers-of-england-great-britain-3530279

 

 

 

 

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"My family and i know two families here in Germany whose kids did not react to the lockdowns very well and needed inpatient Psychiatric treatment.   You have consistently shown yourself unwilling to engage in anything but moralizing and simplistic, binary thinking."

 

You´re lying,you don´t have a family.    

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14 hours ago, balticus said:

i know two families here in Germany whose kids did not react to the lockdowns very well and needed inpatient Psychiatric treatment. 

 

Any family that does not recognize Mental Illness in their children lack basic parental capacities.  If the children's separation from other kids results in " inpatient Psychiatric treatment", that extreme treatment should trigger a call to whatever "Children and Family Services" are called in Germany for further investigation.

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6 hours ago, catjones said:

 

Any family that does not recognize Mental Illness in their children lack basic parental capacities. 

 

Both families recognized a level of depression which they concluded would benefit from professional help.   Considering the number of people here who get 4-6 weeks for "Kur", i didn't consider blaming the parents or resorting to stigmatization to be the best approach, but maybe i need to rethink that.    🤔

 

6 hours ago, catjones said:

If the children's separation from other kids results in " inpatient Psychiatric treatment", that extreme treatment should trigger a call to whatever "Children and Family Services" are called in Germany for further investigation.

 

I wonder if i used the wrong word and generated an image of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" with straight jackets or restraints and heavy medication rather than something a bit less serious.   

 

Here is an article from Nature, which provides a bit of information about the surge in depression and anxiety during lockdowns.   I thought it was well established and common knowledge.  

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00175-z

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I think we had this already, but lockdown in and of itself might not be entirely to blame for increased depression and anxiety?  Two things people have used the lockdown as an excuse to do are be lazy/inactive, and drinking more.  Like, much more.  Those two things on their own will make any person depressed, lockdown or no.  A lot of people have gained weight because they didn't compensate for the exercise they lost going about their daily lives before home office, or because they started eating out of boredom, or as a by-product of drinking too much.  Weight gain makes you depressed for a number of reasons; besides the feelings of guilt and shame and feeling bad in your own skin, there's also the lowered Vitamin D levels and other hormonal issues that will throw your chemicals all out of wack.  Then there's the booze, I guess I don't need to outline all the myriad ways overindulging in alcohol is terrible for your mental and emotional health; also makes you feel terrible in your organs, heightens feelings of anxiety and depression, the whole nine.

 

So of course, grownups who sit at home all day eating Cheetos and day drinking in their sweatpants are going to be fucking depressed.

 

Younger people might not have all the same problems but a lack of exercise will make them feel bad too.

 

And naturally, a lot of people need the social interaction, many people in my Umfeld have complained about this.  However I noted that what they did when they couldn't go out and hang out with friends was... sit at home and drink alone.  There's definitely an element of taking care of yourself that people have overlooked, when it comes to grownups, at least, I don't think you can blame lockdown for people totally neglecting their mental and physical health.  As Krieg noted, because we didn't have a real lockdown in Germany, there was nothing stopping people from going out and getting Fresh Air and Exercise™️ yet many did not and blamed lockdown instead.  And most of the ones I knew were these evil clueless childless ones, so it wasn't that they were locked up inside with the kids all day. They should have taken more responsibility for their own health and stopped looking to the government to tell them how and when to get exercise and a healthy diet. ;) 

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I read a few reports online suggesting that strangely, several unvaccinated people have genuinely felt severely unwell in the presence of those that have been vaccinated (severe migraines, nausea etc)! I wonder if I am so affected in the presence of my husband (occasionally) and in-laws (always)? Probably some other aversion in my case!

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