How many of you will trust Covid-19 vaccine with own lives?

How many of you will trust Covid-19 vaccine with own lives?   132 votes

  1. 1. How many of you will trust Covid-19 vaccine with own lives?

    • I will do it, this vaccine is made by doctors, and they know how is done and if is efficient.
      88
    • I will not do it, doctors got different opinions about side effects, for the moment they don't trust this vaccine, why should I do it?
      7
    • Vaccine? For Covid-19? GTFOOH! Doctors still learn the virus and you want to do a vaccine? Are you insane?
      3
    • They plan to force people to do the vaccine, in order to fly, otherwise you cannot fly or travel internationally without one.
      11
    • I am ok without one, I am still healthy, after 8-9 months of ''quarantine living'. With mask and disinfectants who needs a vaccine?
      2
    • I will do it, but in a year or so, first persons are ''lab rats'' testers. I don't trust them yet.
      19
    • I was already sick. No need for a vaccine for me.
      2

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2,105 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, yourkeau said:

I am also following Von Den Leyen, the woman who is failing the vaccination campaign. The EU does not own any vaccine-producing companies that supply vaccines to the world. Ursula Von Den Leyen failed to secure vaccine contracts, and as a result, the EU has no vaccines.

 

Something was injected into my arm the other day. I hope it was a vaccine.

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My colleague talked about a painful arm after the vaccination at our (online) meeting ...

... irrepressible me piped up "I know! Getting chipped really hurts!!" *general hilarity*  :D :D

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17 hours ago, yourkeau said:

I am also following Von Den Leyen, the woman who is failing the vaccination campaign. The EU does not own any vaccine-producing companies that supply vaccines to the world. Ursula Von Den Leyen failed to secure vaccine contracts, and as a result, the EU has no vaccines. Now she is blaming the companies for her failure. 

I disagree. If she was guilty of anything, was being naive. She did secure the vaccine contracts, but AZ made an illegal contract with UK. She should have sued and blocked the vaccines after knowing that contract.

Overall, the EU gave away almost half their vaccines to 3rd world countries. US, UK and others did the opposite! I can't see that as a failure, because the longer the 3rd world takes to vaccinate, the more variants we will have.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

I disagree. If she was guilty of anything, was being naive. She did secure the vaccine contracts, but AZ made an illegal contract with UK. She should have sued and blocked the vaccines after knowing that contract.

Overall, the EU gave away almost half their vaccines to 3rd world countries. US, UK and others did the opposite! I can't see that as a failure, because the longer the 3rd world takes to vaccinate, the more variants we will have.

 

 

21 hours ago, yourkeau said:

 

On 6/7/2021, 11:16:57, Keleth said:

 

 

 

I think the EU compaign to be a success because the EU member states sticked together helping smaller countries to get vaccines faster.

 

Btw, if you look at the vaccination numbers there is not that much of a difference between EU countries and the UK or the US. Malta and Hungary have already surpassed the UK and other countries are quickly closing the gap.

 

I agree the van der Leyen approached the negotiations with too much nativity. I would expect that this has changed by now. Live and learn.

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14 hours ago, jeba said:

But there are manufacturing plants which exports it could ban. Just as Biden stopped US producers to export raw materials for vaccines before US clients were satisfied.

You understand international logisics at all?  The EU "production" depends on material manufactured outside the EU, the UK for example so tit for tat banning results in no vaccines for anyone.  But yeah, they're "EU vaccines"

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46 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

I disagree. If she was guilty of anything, was being naive. She did secure the vaccine contracts, but AZ made an illegal contract with UK. She should have sued and blocked the vaccines after knowing that contract.

Overall, the EU gave away almost half their vaccines to 3rd world countries. US, UK and others did the opposite! I can't see that as a failure, because the longer the 3rd world takes to vaccinate, the more variants we will have.

 

 

You making stuiff up again; Illegal contracts?  Yorkeau made a point that the EU should have been doing what the UK was doing and building a supply chain network to enable that production, not having to resort to lawyers to force a company to break an existing commercial contract.

International logistics and international supply chains seems to be a difficult concept.

 

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2 hours ago, bennetn said:

You understand international logisics at all?  The EU "production" depends on material manufactured outside the EU, the UK for example so tit for tat banning results in no vaccines for anyone.  But yeah, they're "EU vaccines"

The fact that I pointed out the restriction on the export of raw materials should have proven to you that I´m aware of the existence of supply chains. That has nothing to do with the fact that the EU could have decided to ban exports.

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2 hours ago, Namu said:

I agree the van der Leyen approached the negotiations with too much nativity.

 

She was hoping 3 wise men were gonna rock up to deliver all the vaccine we needed?

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36 minutes ago, jeba said:

The fact that I pointed out the restriction on the export of raw materials should have proven to you that I´m aware of the existence of supply chains. That has nothing to do with the fact that the EU could have decided to ban exports.

And the fact remains that had the EU done so, other countries would have banned the export of the either the component parts or the final goods to be packaged so the production/finishing company based in the EU would not have the product to export

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13 minutes ago, bennetn said:

And the fact remains that had the EU done so, other countries would have banned the export of the either the component parts or the final goods to be packaged so the production/finishing company based in the EU would not have the product to export

Maybe, maybe not. Anyway it has nothing to with my point that yourkeau´s claim that the EU had no production capacity and therefore couldn´t export vaccines was wrong.

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49 minutes ago, jeba said:

Maybe, maybe not. Anyway it has nothing to with my point that yourkeau´s claim that the EU had no production capacity and therefore couldn´t export vaccines was wrong.

If they had tit for tat export ban, yes.

Yorkeau is correct, the EU did not own any production and the private companies who did, I do not think had 100% EU production.

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Of course, the EU doesn´t own production, but companies residing within the EU do and it would have been possible for the EU to act as the US did.

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26 minutes ago, jeba said:

Of course, the EU doesn´t own production, but companies residing within the EU do and it would have been possible for the EU to act as the US did.

It wouldn't as I did not fully own 100% of the production.  There's a reaon why the EU was vocal about the UK and not the US, companies relied upon the US for production.

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I like the suggestion that EU should "own" drug companies. That's really not what the EU is or what the EU does. 

 

At the end of the day had AZ not let down the EU and had delivered the promised doses none of this would have been a story. The criticism of VDL is that she didn't forsee this and didn't forsee that the UK would be given preferential treatment. But can you imagine the colours Brexiteers would have been turning if the EU had negotiated a contract with AZ that gave them priority over the UK? Damned if you do; damned if you don't: there would have been lots of complaints about the big bad EU throwing its weight around, but by not doing it, everyone attacks the big bad EU for not throwing its weight around enough.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Dembo said:

The criticism of VDL is that she didn't forsee this and didn't forsee that the UK would be given preferential treatment. But can you imagine the colours Brexiteers would have been turning if the EU had negotiated a contract with AZ that gave them priority over the UK? Damned if you do; damned if you don't: there would have been lots of complaints about the big bad EU throwing its weight around, but by not doing it, everyone attacks the big bad EU for not throwing its weight around enough.

 

If the agreement with a private company had no real teeth and/or she does not have the muscle to extract some concessions out of that private company when terms of the agreement were breached, then i would suggest that the salient question is:   why would anybody put her or her office in charge of anything of significance?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, balticus said:

If the agreement with a private company had no real teeth and/or she does not have the muscle to extract some concessions out of that private company when terms of the agreement were breached, then i would suggest that the salient question is:   why would anybody put her or her office in charge of anything of significance?

What muscle could she have had? Everyone was desperate for vaccines; what do you imagine they could have done?

 

In fact the only thing they could have done is what they are doing and that's suing AZ for breaching the contract as well as not buying more from AZ. We'll have to see how that pans out. Even if AZ don't lose they're probably not getting much business from the EU in future. 

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7 minutes ago, Dembo said:

What muscle could she have had? Everyone was desperate for vaccines; what do you imagine they could have done?

 

In fact the only thing they could have done is what they are doing and that's suing AZ for breaching the contract as well as not buying more from AZ. We'll have to see how that pans out. Even if AZ don't lose they're probably not getting much business from the EU in future. 

 

If you read this headline and have the impression that she can do something to pressure the UK government, but not one specific British multinational, then we might have a different view of the relative power of various entities.  

 

Von der Leyen warns UK Brexit deal has ‘real teeth’ if terms breached

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/von-der-leyen-warns-uk-brexit-deal-has-real-teeth-if-terms-breached-1.4548972

 

If you are suggesting that her negotiation toolkit is limited to generating sensational headlines and raising concerns, you might be right.   It could also be that her words and her intent are not the same.   

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11 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I disagree. If she was guilty of anything, was being naive. She did secure the vaccine contracts, but AZ made an illegal contract with UK. She should have sued and blocked the vaccines after knowing that contract.

 

I'm not sure the contract in itself was illegal but they certainly lied to the EU when for example they blamed the shortfall in deliveries on production problems in the EU. meanwhile they were producing in NL and exporting vaccine from there to the UK.

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13 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I disagree. If she was guilty of anything, was being naive. She did secure the vaccine contracts, but AZ made an illegal contract with UK. She should have sued and blocked the vaccines after knowing that contract.

I posted about this a few pages back.

Neither the UK or the EU contract were illegal.

The UK contract was written under UK law which would levy massive financial penalties on AZ if they did not deliver what they promised.

The EU contract was written under EU (Belgian ?) law which allowed for no financial penalties and only for the EU to pull out of the contract if AZ did not deliver what was promised.

 

When it comes down to it which contract did people expect AZ to honour.

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