Trades-people in Germany

[DaringD 106]

Three years ago my wife and I bought a house and have been slowly fixing it up to where we want it to be, sometimes doing work ourselves, sometimes getting in trades-people.

 

We've had double glazing put in, roof windows put in, new external doors, some plastering, plumbing, metal work put up (balcony railings) and a new boiler installed.  With the exception of the plastering (a local guy with no official business or qualifications) we had problems with every single contracter we hired.

 

The window people did not seal up around the windows properly in 7 of the 9 windows they installed on the first run, and after a few weeks some of the trim they installed fell off and it was a fight to get them to take responsibility for it.

 

The people who installed the roof windows (roofing firm) didn't nail in some of the new joists they installed and I had to have them back, the guy was an absolute prick and acted like I'd really put him out, he then inspired confidence in me by offering to leave some of the nails with me in case I found more...

 

The external doors were fitted very badly, the guy installed the front door by drilling into the plaster and not the brickwork, the whole thing could be shook, it wasn't sealed, you could see where the plaster had broken outwards under the wallpaper, it was hard to open and close and was at a very slight angle, this was done via Toom, they came out twice and sent a Hörmann rep out to check it, they all seemed to be fine with the shoddy work, we had to hire a gutachter to check it who said it was an absolute joke and exposed a whole bunch of other problems we hadn't seen too. 

 

The plumber smoked in the house and left beer bottles and cigarette ends on the upstairs balcony, plus I caught him in our bedroom once when I got home and he had no good reason as to why he was there. The company said they had spoken to him and were happy he had not acted inappropriately and also said they have told him to make sure he removes all trash from jobs in the future (no mention of asking him not to smoke in peoples houses or drink on the job).

 

The boiler guys didn't install the thermostat where we asked them to and flatout refused to move it, even after admitting it was their fault.

 

When the railings guys finished I checked the work and found that a lot of the masonry screws they used had been over-tightened and were just spinning in the holes they made so the whole railing was not properly secured, when I asked them about it they blamed our masonry, saying it was too old. I challenged them and asked them why they didn't say something before installing it unsafely (keeping in mind the balcony is second floor and needs to be secure) and they said it was not their responsibility.  Again, we had to get a guachter because the company refused to put it right and assured us it was fine (it was not), and the gutachter agreed with us, we are still waiting for them to put this right.  It was installed in February.

 

All of these firms are, as German law dictates, run by fully qualified people and charge an absolute premium for their work, plastering the word "Meister" all over their vans and paperwork, but the work is second rate, the attitudes are terrible and customer service is non existent. I would argue that from my lived experience their "Meister-ship" is worth less nothing.

 

I fully understand that all of the rules and regulations are supposed to be there to ensure quality of work and safety and also keep the economy rolling, but the only bloke who ever did a good job was the local with no qualifications who HAS to rely on word of mouth and reputation alone, he's also the only one I will definitely hire again.

 

We are going to have to hire a firm to lay the floor upstairs soon, and I'm totally at the end of my wits with it all, I don't have the energy to keep fighting it out with these people,  No matter how hard we search or what recommendations we get, there places always seem to be more interested in cutting corners and doing the work fast and not well.

 

In contrast, I have never had this problem in the UK. Of course people made mistakes, broke things or did a bad job from time to time, but most were honest mistakes and were rectified without the attitude and I certainly never had to resort to external experts or lawyers.

 

In short, what the hell is up with this?  are we just extremely unlucky or is this an accurate representation of what we are going to have to deal with every single time we have work done buy contractors in Germany?

 

* as an added extra, not construction related but still a similar thing, the caterer we hired for our wedding tried to charge us more than the amount we had agreed on after we had paid them in cash on the day (they sent us a mahnung/invoice a month later with added costs). We have just settled this through the courts where he lost, but this was ongoing for over 3 years and it was over an amount of 60€

 

[engelchen 13,040]

Have you considered contacting your local Handwerkskammer to complain? They might also be able to give you recommendations. 

[lunaCH 972]

I wouldn't leave tradespeople alone in the property. Some of the problems (smoking, trash, entering other rooms) can be avoided this way. 

 

Leave a very poor rating on websites for the firms you were disappointed with - starting with google maps. 

For the guy with whom you were happy, yet had no qualifications, leave a positive evaluation - if he has a profile. 

[fraufruit 41,959]

What an ongoing nightmare! You have my sympathy.

[Wasteland 100]

I think it is party because these tradespeople often work in rental propertys and most renters simply don't care in the same way that a home owner does. By the way drinking beer in Bamberg while working isn't seen as drinking on the job,it's normal, it wasn't that long ago up here in Berlin the brewery delivered crates of beer directly  to the building site.

[dstanners 1,529]

Part of the problem is that tradespeople have got it good here in Germany. I'm actually impressed that in just three years you have managed to get so many different tradesmen to turn up for various jobs. There's so much work, that even a bad review from one customer won't stop them being able to fill their calendar for the next few months.

Other than identifying with your problem, the only things I can suggest are 1) speak with some local friends and find out who they use. Make sure the tradesman knows that you are "connected" to the locals (tradespeople the world over are more likely to do a shoddy job on some johnny come lately foreigner, than on someone established in the same town/village as them); 2) speak with the folk as they come over to look at the job. If they try to BS you with jargon (a favourite habit), find someone else; 3) get onto youtube and see which of the trades you can actually do yourself: I stay clear of most electrical stuff and work on the boiler, but outside of those areas I've done most of the work myself. 

 

[DaringD 106]

4 hours ago, dstanners said:

Part of the problem is that tradespeople have got it good here in Germany.

 

Yes, I totally agree on this, I think that is the point of the system, to make tradespeople scarce and make sure that they are packed with work, also create laws to enforce the use of them, which I disagree with, but I can't argue against the way it keeps the economy rolling and strong, swings and roundabouts,

 

I can do an awful lot myself, I've done most of the wiring and then I have a guy who comes to certify and sign off on it himself and I pay him handsomely, but no where near as much as if he did it, but that works, and German electricity standards are cool, they make sense and are easy to follow. Dry walls, tiling, basic plumbing (after the fiasco of the sex pest plumber, I know exactly what he was doing in out bedroom but I can't prove it), joinery, also window installation now, and basic plastering, to be honest, almost everything, every time we have a crap firm I just learn to do it myself, I should probably thank them actually for creating a jack of all trades.

 

The problem we are having now is that neighbours and friends did recommend these people to us (with the exception of Toom), and as is with most of village things they know them personally so it's caused us some problems in the village because we are now the people who are difficult to deal with, the "Stroppy Tommy". But also whatever, I've never been big on fitting in for the sake of it.

 

7 hours ago, fraufruit said:

What an ongoing nightmare! You have my sympathy.

 

Thank you!

 

7 hours ago, lunaCH said:

I wouldn't leave tradespeople alone in the property.

 

Yeah, agreed, but the reality of our lives means that sometimes it's unavoidable for us, but no more from now on, lesson learned.

 

8 hours ago, engelchen said:

Have you considered contacting your local Handwerkskammer to complain? They might also be able to give you recommendations. 

 

Had not thought about this, but I definitely will from now on, I think any stress I can cause them is a bonus, though I doubt it will make them think twice, it seems like most Germans just accept that 'this is the way'.

 

6 hours ago, Wasteland said:

By the way drinking beer in Bamberg while working isn't seen as drinking on the job,it's normal

 

This seems objectionable on the surface and I want to instantly find everything wrong with it, but I generally feel that Germans generally drink more responsibly that most other cultures, so I'm also hesitant to call it out, unless it affects work, and in this case I think that their standard is just crap, even without beer.  but still, it's jarring to see.

 

 

 

Thank you so far for suggestions, it's helpful.

 

D