Been made redundant - Anything to remember before I sign?

6 posts in this topic

Apologies for starting a new thread. All the ones on here I could find are many years old (though this one was a useful read).

 

A bunch of us in my company have been let go. Just want to be sure I'm tying up any loose ends before I sign any documents (and avoid any confusion with my bad german), and to check what my options are (if any). We don't have a Betriebsrat, and foolishly I don't have any legal insurance.

 

For arbeitsamt purposes, I want to make sure i'm made redundant rather than signing some kind of mutual agreement (aufhebunsvertrag)

 

The document I've been handed is titled 'Abwicklungsvertrag' but it states quite early on 'Die Parteien sind sich einig, dass das zwischen ihnen bestehende Arbeitsverhaltnis durch die von der Gesellschaft am xx.xx.xxxx ausgesprochene ordentliche Kundigung aus dringenden betriebsbedingten Grunden fristgemass mit Ablauf des xx.xx.xxxx endet'

 

Does the 'betriebsbedingten Grunden' confirm that this is a unilaterla redundancy for operational reasons?

 

With this type of redundancy do I have any options at all? i.e. what happens if I don't sign? I'm guessing it's a challenge to go to a lawyer and argue this is an 'unjust dismissal' if the company is deleting some roles?

 

I had quite a large number of annual leave left over (busy Q2 & Q3). Do I have any right for that to be added on top of any severance that is negotiated? (I've been at the company just over 1 year)

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18 hours ago, galego said:

The document I've been handed is titled 'Abwicklungsvertrag' but it states quite early on 'Die Parteien sind sich einig, dass das zwischen ihnen bestehende Arbeitsverhaltnis durch die von der Gesellschaft am xx.xx.xxxx ausgesprochene ordentliche Kundigung aus dringenden betriebsbedingten Grunden fristgemass mit Ablauf des xx.xx.xxxx endet'

 

..Die Parteien sind sich einig ... means that both parties agree to the dismissal. If you agree to your  contract being terminated and you receive a redundancy payment, you may have to face the first few months without any financial support from the Arbeitstagentur (AA) and have to pay your own health insurance etc.

 

 

In case of a dismissal, the employee does not have to sign anything. The company may ask the employee to sign a form stating that on day xxx the employee received the Kündigung. This is to prove that the employee was given the dismissal within the notice period.

 

 

Have you already registered with the AA? You have to register within 3 days of receiving your notice.  Make an appointment and take a copy of your dismissal notice, passport and  a document  showing membership of your health insurance- Mitgliedsbescheinigung. The people at the AA will advise you what to do concerning your signature on the document and if you will be given financial support from day one or at a later date.

 

 

Regarding your holidays, does you contract end at the end of the month or end of the quarter. If you have more holidays than working days, the remaining holidays can be paid out.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You can sign an Aufhebungsvertrag and not be penalised (not losing three months of ALG-1), for that the correct wording must be used.   But going to a lawyer to check it would be recommended, too bad you have no legal insurance.

 

If there is other people in other departments doing the same or something similar to what you did then you would have some ground to fight the termination, but then again, no lawyer insurance.

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18 hours ago, galego said:

With this type of redundancy do I have any options at all? i.e. what happens if I don't sign? I'm guessing it's a challenge to go to a lawyer and argue this is an 'unjust dismissal' if the company is deleting some roles?

You're not obliged to sign anything. 

You don't have to challenge it either. To do so you don't need insurance, but likely you'd have to prepay your costs to challenge it legally and the other side's costs if you lose.

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Thanks for the useful info! Appreciated. Also always good to hear from a fellow Yorkshire person

 

Quote

..Die Parteien sind sich einig ... means that both parties agree to the dismissal. If you agree to your  contract being terminated and you receive a redundancy payment, you may have to face the first few months without any financial support from the Arbeitstagentur (AA) and have to pay your own health insurance etc.

 

This does concern me in that case :/ ... hmm. At my last company, two of us left at the same time with the same aufhebunsvertrag (I assume). He got arbeitslosengeld from day one, whilst I had a sperrzeit. In the end I started a new job after 8 days of arbeitslosengeld, but it was nerve wracking at first.

 

I'll register online with the AA. Hopefully they will reach out before the deadline of signing this document (and hopefully appointments are all online right now?)

 

Quote

Regarding your holidays, does you contract end at the end of the month or end of the quarter. If you have more holidays than working days, the remaining holidays can be paid out.   

 

My notice period is until the end of December. So as I'm on gardening leave immediately, that'll gobble up any remaining holidays.  I've been at the company 1 year and been offered 1 month of 'severance payment' per year worked (I'm aware that's more that any legal minimum). I may speak to a lawyer (if there's a free consultation). If any potential legal fees remove any gains from a severance I guess I leave it.

17 hours ago, lunaCH said:

You're not obliged to sign anything. 

You don't have to challenge it either. 

 

What happens if I simply don't sign and leave it? I get terminated (unilaterally) by default and then just get my notice paid for?

 

Thanks again!

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I wouldn't sign anything that says 

6 minutes ago, galego said:

Die Parteien sind sich einig

as clearly you're not and are unhappy about the dismissal and the conditions. It's clearly better to get terminated unilaterally by the employer as you don't admit to anything, you're not penalised by benefits offices etc. 

Whether this will have an effect on the conditions of the dismissal is another matter though.

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