Betriebskosten issue

[midnil 5]

Hi Everyone,

I am in need of some advice regarding the Betriebskostenabrechnung I just received from my landlord.

I moved to this flat in September 2019 and pay monthly 150 euros nebenkosten (90 for Heizung and 60 for the rest). This is a 60m2  flat with just 1 person and i live in a small town ( 50 K) in a rural area. The Betriebsabrechnung I received for 2019 says I have to pay extra 400 euros ( note that this is just for 4 months).

 

The costs include:

- expenses with 2 lifts that are not in my part of the building ( I cannot use them to get to my flat). One of them is behind a locked door that i have no key for. Can the landlord include this?

- my rental contract says that "muellbeseitigung" and "Anlagen zur be- und Entlueftung"  are to be calculated by area, but the betriebskosten use nr of flats to calculate "wartung zu-u.Abluftanlagen", "muellabfuhr" and "bereitstellung mullbehalter". Are those equivalent?

- the worst part is an estimated bill for heizung and wasser of 400 euros for the 4 months. I have a meter that they did not come to read ever and i checked my daily m3 consumed, per month it will be about 1 m3. But the estimation they sent is 20m3 for the 4 months. Can anyone explain how they estimate this (3 pages uploaded), specially the Ihre einheiten in page 1 and content in pages 2 and 3?

 

 

I have called the company managing the flat for the landlord and they were evasive and did not really answer my questions. What is the approach I should take, send them some sort of complain letter or go directly to a lawyer?

I appreciate any advice

 

Additionally there are 3 unknown abbreviations for me in the Betriebskostenabrechnung:  NE, WE, Gew. What is the meaning of these?

[engelchen 13,040]

Forget the lawyer. Join your local Mieterverein. 

[McDee 393]

Exactly. Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters. Er ooops no Mieterverein. 

[LukeSkywalker 7,600]

If you have a Rechtsschutzversicherung incl. tenant law, you can call them otherwise the Mieterverein. If you don't have any of these, I found this: https://www.mineko.de/nebenkostenabrechnung-pruefen-lassen-wohnung/#preistabelle

 

For €49 you can have your BKA checked. Don't know, however, if it's any good.

 

You are overpaying: 150 + (400/4)= 250 / 60 m2= €4,17. This seems very high.

 

People living on the groundfloor also pay for elevators although they don't use them. I think that NE means Nutzeinheit and WE Wohneinheit, ie. your apartment.

[lunaCH 972]

2 hours ago, midnil said:

The costs include:

- expenses with 2 lifts that are not in my part of the building ( I cannot use them to get to my flat). One of them is behind a locked door that i have no key for. Can the landlord include this?

In my experience yes, as whilst the lift is not part of your building, the various buildings may be run together as a complex. The costs of all of the buildings may be then divided up amongst all owners of all flats across all buildings in the complex. It may be that these costs are passed on to the owner of your flat and the owner is passing them on to you as may be their right. 

The fact that you can't use these lifts/don't need to use them or that they are behind locked doors might be irrelevant.

[lunaCH 972]

4 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

People living on the groundfloor also pay for elevators although they don't use them. I think that NE means Nutzeinheit and WE Wohneinheit, ie. your apartment.

This is especially true if the lift goes to the basement floor(s) - for example to get to the cellars, laundry rooms, garage etc. 

In some buildings the costs for the lift increase the higher the floor number, people on the ground floor should pay the least - but it's not always the case.

[vivanco 173]

3 hours ago, midnil said:

I just received from my landlord.I moved to this flat in September 2019 and pay monthly 150 euros nebenkosten (90 for Heizung and 60 for the rest). This is a 60m2  flat with just 1 person and i live in a small town ( 50 K) in a rural area. The Betriebsabrechnung I received for 2019 says I have to pay extra 400 euros ( note that this is just for 4 months).

 

The bill you attached lists your cost (eur 415,58 )for the 4 months. However to me, it seems that they have not deducted the monthly payment of 150 euros that you are already paying. So from your bill,  600 euros need to be deducted from it. Ask your landlord why is not being deducted. Generally landlord should inform the billing company for the Nebenkosten benig paid by the tenant so that its taken care of.

[kato 3,559]

20 hours ago, midnil said:

- the worst part is an estimated bill for heizung and wasser of 400 euros for the 4 months. I have a meter that they did not come to read ever and i checked my daily m3 consumed, per month it will be about 1 m3. But the estimation they sent is 20m3 for the 4 months. Can anyone explain how they estimate this (3 pages uploaded), specially the Ihre einheiten in page 1 and content in pages 2 and 3?

 

 

The estimate is based on §9b Heizkostenverordnung. Under this paragraph, if it is not possible to have the meters read (before change of renter), the estimate is either time-based or (in your case) run based on a "degree day table" (which is standardized, not landlord-dependent). That table is reproduced on page 3, and correct for 2019. Your heating Grundkosten are based on that and the size of your apartment (0.39 * 58.95 m² / 1185.51 m²).

 

For the Verbrauchskosten, after a couple hard looks over the numbers: Was the apartment empty since end of February / beginning of March 2019 before you moved in?

 

The Verbrauchskosten - which seem to be estimated entirely based on apartment size relative to house size - are distributed (time-wise for water, table-wise for heating) between you and the previous renter. If the previous person only rented the apartment during January and February in 2019 the numbers fit.

 

 

17 hours ago, vivanco said:

The bill you attached lists your cost (eur 415,58 )for the 4 months. However to me, it seems that they have not deducted the monthly payment of 150 euros that you are already paying. So from your bill,  600 euros need to be deducted from it. Ask your landlord why is not being deducted. Generally landlord should inform the billing company for the Nebenkosten benig paid by the tenant so that its taken care of.

 

Uh, no, you might be misunderstanding something there. This isn't a bill. This is a Betriebskostenabrechnung, i.e. a statement of what costs were actually incurred. The landlord is legally obliged to give this statement to the renter for transparency.

 

[vivanco 173]

2 hours ago, kato said:

 

Uh, no, you might be misunderstanding something there. This isn't a bill. This is a Betriebskostenabrechnung, i.e. a statement of what costs were actually incurred. The landlord is legally obliged to give this statement to the renter for transparency.

I know this is not the bill, but the Op seems to be under impression that he has to pay this 400 euro extra over his regular payment. 

 

"The Betriebsabrechnung I received for 2019 says I have to pay extra 400 euros ( note that this is just for 4 months)."

 

Earlier when I received the betriebsabrechnung, my monthly payment of the nebenkosten was considered and then the extra payment/refund was clearly mentioned. 

[lunasuenos 82]

Keep in mind when you pay heat in the nebenkosten...it is a average accross 12 months including the warm months of summer. So in the real cost in august might be zero but the real cost in january might be 200. Since you moved in durning the heating months you have not put in enough money to cover just the colder months. Over  full year you should build up enough in the warm months to cover the cold months. This recently happened to me in my new place that i moved in october same situation. Even with full year the amount per month is a estimate...

[lunaCH 972]

3 hours ago, lunasuenos said:

So in the real cost in august might be zero but the real cost in january might be 200.

Zero would be very unlikely and difficult to achieve. It would mean for a start that no one in the building had used any hot water whatsoever and no lights were switched on in common areas etc., for the entire month. 

[lunasuenos 82]

In my last apartment  building the heat system was shut off from may to september and each units hot water was via  in apatment electric water heaters. Mainly my point was to highlight the cost per month varies greatly

[midnil 5]

On 9/13/2020, 7:27:37, McDee said:

Exactly. Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters. Er ooops no Mieterverein. 

 

Thanks for all the help. I will meet  with someone from the Mieterverein tomorrow after advice from German friends!

[midnil 5]

On 9/13/2020, 8:52:34, lunaCH said:

In my experience yes, as whilst the lift is not part of your building, the various buildings may be run together as a complex. The costs of all of the buildings may be then divided up amongst all owners of all flats across all buildings in the complex. It may be that these costs are passed on to the owner of your flat and the owner is passing them on to you as may be their right. 

The fact that you can't use these lifts/don't need to use them or that they are behind locked doors might be irrelevant.

 

Well that sucks but i can live with it. But one of the lifts is in a closed room ( lift goes between basement and street) that only the tenant renting that part of the keller has access to. I will ask the mieterverein tomorrow If all tenants should pay for it.

[midnil 5]

On 9/13/2020, 10:09:34, vivanco said:

 

The bill you attached lists your cost (eur 415,58 )for the 4 months. However to me, it seems that they have not deducted the monthly payment of 150 euros that you are already paying. So from your bill,  600 euros need to be deducted from it. Ask your landlord why is not being deducted. Generally landlord should inform the billing company for the Nebenkosten benig paid by the tenant so that its taken care of.

 

They do deduct the pre payment in a different page that i did not upload. To be clear the total costs for 4 months are about 1000 euros (includes the 415.58 from Kalo). So, subtracting the 600 prepayment I still need to pay 400. While the other costs are reasonable, the 415,58 euros from KALO are just not a realistic amount for 4 months consumption.

But from the answers above I now understand that since I moved in in the cold months I am just paying peak winter heizung and hot water. There was no yearly averaging with summer low consumption.

[midnil 5]

On 9/14/2020, 2:58:43, kato said:

 

The estimate is based on §9b Heizkostenverordnung. Under this paragraph, if it is not possible to have the meters read (before change of renter), the estimate is either time-based or (in your case) run based on a "degree day table" (which is standardized, not landlord-dependent). That table is reproduced on page 3, and correct for 2019. Your heating Grundkosten are based on that and the size of your apartment (0.39 * 58.95 m² / 1185.51 m²).

 

For the Verbrauchskosten, after a couple hard looks over the numbers: Was the apartment empty since end of February / beginning of March 2019 before you moved in?

 

The Verbrauchskosten - which seem to be estimated entirely based on apartment size relative to house size - are distributed (time-wise for water, table-wise for heating) between you and the previous renter. If the previous person only rented the apartment during January and February in 2019 the numbers fit.

 

 

 

Uh, no, you might be misunderstanding something there. This isn't a bill. This is a Betriebskostenabrechnung, i.e. a statement of what costs were actually incurred. The landlord is legally obliged to give this statement to the renter for transparency.

 

Thank you very much for the help.

I now understand how they calculate it. For the Grundkosten they use the gradtagstabelle and i am to pay 39% of yearly costs with the grundkosten being  30% of total costs. Because I moved in during winter this cost is going to be higher than the annual average.

The flat was renovated before i moved in, so probably empty for several months. I am not sure when the last tenant left.

 

The verbrauchskosten is still an issue. It was calculated with the values in page 2 and there it says "estimated according to average consumption of property". The estimation is too high compared to my real consumption.  They never come to read the meters after i moved in. Can I arrange a date over the phone for them to do it or alternatively give them the reading over the phone or online? is this something you can do in Germany?

 

[kato 3,559]

For water: Check your rental contract. It is legally possible for the landlord to distribute water cost non-usage-dependent, i.e. by distributing the overall usage to all apartments as done here. Needs to be contractually laid down though.

 

For heating: They didn't read the meters around the turn of the calculation period, i.e. at the end of the year (+-2 weeks) ?

(possibly remotely, not on site - if on site, was there an announcement somewhere at the front door or staircase entrance?)

 

Also note that your point of contact is always the landlord or (for day-to-day business like this) the Hausverwaltung that he contracted to do this job. The company doing the calculation - Kalorimeta - is contracted by the landlord and doesn't have anything to do with you.

[skinnypuppy 87]

Bumping this thread.

We own an apartment in a Wohneigentumgemeinschaft consisting of two lowrise (4 and 5 floors) blocks and one highrise building (12 floors). The three blocks are not connected, aside form being part of the same WEG. We've just received notice that the elevators in the highrise need renewing/replacing, and the costs are beings hared out among ALL the units. We have neither access to, nor use of these elevators, but are looking at a one-off special fee of nearly €800. Do any of you lovely TTers know if we have any legal basis for contesting this? We don't have legal insurance.

Any constructive advice greatly appreciated.

[PandaMunich 16,568]

51 minutes ago, skinnypuppy said:

Do any of you lovely TTers know if we have any legal basis for contesting this? 

Not really, see here: https://www.haufe.de/recht/deutsches-anwalt-office-premium/aufzugskosten-verteilung-einer-mehrhausanlage_idesk_PI17574_HI555312.html

 

The only way not to have to contribute to the elevator in the highrise would be for a majority of all owners to vote for a different cost distribution. But with the lowrise buildings only being 9 floors in total and the highrise 12 floors, you would be outvoted, so that will not happen: https://www-gevestor-de.translate.goog/finanzwissen/immobilien/vermieten-abrechnen/aufzugskosten-so-geht-die-kostenverteilung-richtig-722772.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[skinnypuppy 87]

14 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

Not really, see here: https://www.haufe.de/recht/deutsches-anwalt-office-premium/aufzugskosten-verteilung-einer-mehrhausanlage_idesk_PI17574_HI555312.html

 

The only way not to have to contribute to the elevator in the highrise would be for a majority of all owners to vote for a different cost distribution. But with the lowrise buildings only being 9 floors in total and the highrise 12 floors, you would be outvoted, so that will not happen: https://www-gevestor-de.translate.goog/finanzwissen/immobilien/vermieten-abrechnen/aufzugskosten-so-geht-die-kostenverteilung-richtig-722772.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Thank you so much for the links. The number of lowrise and highrise units are, in fact equal, but it seems a 2/3 majority is needed when it comes to repair and maintenance work. Looks like I'm out of luck and out of pocket.