Covid-19 Poll (UPDATE 9 Aug 2020: new poll questions)

[jeba 4,364]

6 hours ago, keith2011 said:

If they won't then sooner or later fists are going to fly and that won't be good if they are mine!

Good idea as it will land you in prison and according to what I read (too lazy now to search for the source) those are very safe with very low infection rates.

[Keleth 9,346]

On 8/7/2020, 7:49:43, jeba said:

What about an option like: Current measures are reasonable for a limited time say up to 1 (?) year?

Agree with this sort of.

But to what do you want it to go to if for in example in a year the situation is exactly as it is now,no vaccine etc.

18 hours ago, Rushrush said:

As an aside why the hell is everyone NOW mandating masks when the death/inflection rates are falling. Why not at the beginning when it matter.

So better that they don`t mandate them now because they screwed up at the start ?

 

[jeba 4,364]

22 hours ago, balticus said:

Questioning political decisions seems healthy.

You can question them all you want. But you still have to follow the law.

 

22 hours ago, balticus said:

If you have surveyed the literature, there are many serious health experts which view masks as relatively worthless.

And many who view them valuable. Especially FFP 3 ones. Better to err on the side of cautuon, isn´t it?

 

22 hours ago, balticus said:

You should use scientifically established results and make arguments.

Which ones? Those established by experts you like or those established by those you dislike as well?

 

21 hours ago, balticus said:

Germany has 9261 deaths in a population of 83,812,720

 

9261/83812720 == 0.01104%

What are you trying to say? That a small smoldering cigarette thrown away in the forest can´t do much harm?

[jeba 4,364]

3 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Agree with this sort of.

But to what do you want it to go to if for in example in a year the situation is exactly as it is now,no vaccine etc.

E. g. for economic sustainability?

[Guest]

8 hours ago, keith2011 said:

 If they won't then sooner or later fists are going to fly and that won't be good if they are mine!

 

Make sure you use hand disinfectant before slugging anyone and do wash your hands if you manage to land any punches.    If you get punched in the face a few times, be sure to clean the bruises with disinfectant and wash properly.   

 

In the times of COVID, controlling emotional outbursts which lead to fighting need to be restrained more than ever to prevent transmission.  

 

8 hours ago, keith2011 said:

Angry after a late evening U-bahn trip.

 

Do some exercises and watch the latest live Phish concert to chill out.   

 

Once this COVID stuff is over, you can slug random strangers engaging in behavior you don't like and simply face the legal consequences without the worry of becoming infected. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jeba said:

You can question them all you want. But you still have to follow the law.

 

Thank you, Professor Doktor Obvious. 

1 hour ago, jeba said:

And many who view them valuable. Especially FFP 3 ones. Better to err on the side of cautuon, isn´t it?

It is better to act in proportion to the risk.   

 

The studies i have seen tend to cite obesity as a major comorbidity.    I believe there should be attention focused on this serious and very costly health problem which affects people worldwide.

1 hour ago, jeba said:

Which ones? Those established by experts you like or those established by those you dislike as well?

Read widely and look at diverse opinions and their arguments.   Look at policies and outcomes. 

 

There are diverse opinions which sometimes reflect variance in circumstances, but often do not.   

 

In addition, COVID is one of many public health issues, and at this point, for most countries, it is not the most serious.   Measures to combat COVID should be weighed against the cost of taking resources and focus from other health issues. 

 

1 hour ago, jeba said:

What are you trying to say?

I was saying that the suggestion that 1.3% of the population has died of COVID is roughly a 300 fold exaggeration of the observed fatalities.  

 

The mods don't read every post though.   

1 hour ago, jeba said:

That a small smoldering cigarette thrown away in the forest can´t do much harm?

 

People should not smoke cigarettes in the forest, in fact, they shouldn't smoke cigarettes at all - it is a filthy, unhealthy and costly habit/addiction.   

 

 

For school aged kids, the risk of dying from COVID is lower than the risk of  dying from commuting to and from school.    Luckily public health officials usually make policy recommendations based on the relative risks and not on unlikely scenarios involving what could potentially do a lot of harm.

 

Barricading oneself in a bunker has social and ultimately health consequences.    

 

[Keleth 9,346]

2 hours ago, jeba said:

E. g. for economic sustainability?

Badly worded question from me.

I mean how do you want the rules to change `?

No masks ?

No distancing ?

Everything back to normal ie crowds etc

 

[jeba 4,364]

32 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Badly worded question from me.

I mean how do you want the rules to change `?

No masks ?

No distancing ?

Everything back to normal ie crowds etc

 

I´d make it dependent on the respective cost/benefit ratio. I´m not in a position though to establish those.I´d suggest actively exposing young healthy volunteers (for a start) to very low doses of the virus administered in a controlled way via the nose. That way one could find out what the minimal infective dose in humans (as opposed to monkeys and petri dishes) is. Maybe doses lower than that (applied repeatedly?) would already work as a vaccine? Actually, I´d start with that now already. I find it wrong that challenge studies (which would massively speed up vaccine development) still aren´t allowed for ethical considerations.

My thinking behind that is that very likely not only the amount of virus you get infected with matters but although the route of infection. It´s probably making a difference whether you inhale a large dose taking a deep breath so it gets right into your lungs or whether you catch a small dose via your nasal mucosa. In the latter case your immune system would win some time to prepare for the virus attack onto the lungs.

 

And by the way: I´d make options for suicide more easily available for those who (like myself) are more worried about suffering that about death. Currently if you want to commite suicide you rely on someone being prepared to help you. You don´t have a claim to that help though. That is beyond the corona topic though.

[fraufruit 42,670]

11 hours ago, keith2011 said:

sooner or later fists are going to fly and that won't be good if they are mine!

 

Fists have flown and people have been shot and killed for not wearing a mask or for requesting that someone else do so.

[Keleth 9,346]

3 hours ago, jeba said:

I´d make it dependent on the respective cost/benefit ratio. I´m not in a position though to establish those.

So who is ?

A doctor,a businessman ?

Still not really sure what you mean though.Cost in lives (or maybe just screwing up health services)against cost of not having thousands of people crammed together ?

Where would you let crowds in ?

Do sports and rock stadiums have the same priority as say airlines and transport etc ?

Showbusiness ?

3 hours ago, jeba said:

I´d suggest actively exposing young healthy volunteers (for a start) to very low doses of the virus administered in a controlled way via the nose

Your kids ?

Being a guinea pig for having a disease given to you is a big difference to being a guinea pig for a vaccine.

We still don`t know the long term affects of the disease.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-warning-from-italy-effects-of-covid-19-could-be-worse-than-first-thought-12027348

This Italian study is interesting as it shows the after affects of having the disease even in healthy people.

 

3 hours ago, jeba said:

My thinking behind that is that very likely not only the amount of virus you get infected with matters but although the route of infection. It´s probably making a difference whether you inhale a large dose taking a deep breath so it gets right into your lungs or whether you catch a small dose via your nasal mucosa. In the latter case your immune system would win some time to prepare for the virus attack onto the lungs.

You been on Facebook again ?

Absolutely no idea on whether that`s bollocks or not but it`s the sort of stuff that you see going round and many people believe.

[Rushrush 303]

So what's end game for the lockdown?

 

The lockdown first went in force when we knew nothing about the pandemic so it made total sense, but now we know that it "ain't going away". The virus, much like the flu, a cold, seasonal allergies, is here to stay. We are fast reaching the point where the economic cost far outweighs the medical costs. How long can government subsidies keep the airlines and by extension, the airports and Airbus Boing duopoly alive? How many restaurants can survive the winter?

 

For example I have 2 really nice lakes but us, super popular with parents and kids but tempers are fraying over it opening.

 

Chaos am Langener Waldsee: Gäste parken Autos an Bundesstraße und im Wald

 

With elections looming around the world it's only a matter of time before anti-lockdown politicians get elected. Better to get out front and be honest that covid is here to stay and find ways of mitigating it without destroying the economy.

[jeba 4,364]

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

So who is ?

A doctor,a businessman ?

That´s for government to decide.

 

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

Do sports and rock stadiums have the same priority as say airlines and transport etc ?

Not in my book. But again,I´d make it dependent on the economic effect.

 

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

Your kids ?

Yes. It´s probably the lesser evil catching it under controlled circumstances (known dose, known mod of administration) than letting them catch it wherever, whenever, however and and at whatever dose.

 

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

You been on Facebook again ?

No, I´m not into FB. These are my thoughts as a (long retired) physician.

[Krieg 15,104]

On 8/9/2020, 9:03:53, balticus said:

Countries like Denmark and the Netherlands have refused to make them mandatory because the lack of evidence for their efficacy.   

 

 

 

On 8/9/2020, 11:14:10, bramble said:

 

This isn't true. In the Netherlands wearing masks is indeed mandatory when travelling on public transport, but not always in shops:  https://www.nach-holland.de/corona-virus
 

 

 

And Denmark's Ministry of Health issued the recommendation last week to wear masks in places where social distancing can't be maintained, like all public transport.

 

 

[Rushrush 303]

On 8/9/2020, 9:03:53, balticus said:

 

If you have surveyed the literature, there are many serious health experts which view masks as relatively worthless.   Countries like Denmark and the Netherlands have refused to make them mandatory because the lack of evidence for their efficacy.   

 

 

Maybe they simply have doubts that the authorities know what they are doing.    

You should use scientifically established results and make arguments.   You might find that making the arguments and searching for evidence changes your opinion.   

 

  Noticed this on twitter, huge arbitration case in Ontario. Could the hospital force  nurses wear masks. After a long and expensive fight the nurses won. The experts concluded that masks simply don't work. 
 

Maybe those antimask protesters are on to something 

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1291844622550016000.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[john g. 37,776]

... issue with question 8, dessa.

” The Government is using bla bla to distract bla bla.”

Only one Government? Or the German Government? Or other countries’ Governments?

If the question is “ are ALL Governments etc ?”, then you have the perfect paranoid conspiracy!

 

[dessa_dangerous 13,315]

 it's like, how long of an essay do you want written here, people?

 

Ask Keleth.  It's his suggestion. 

[john g. 37,776]

Keleth!!🙏🏻 Spill the beans!!!

[Keleth 9,346]

8 minutes ago, john g. said:

... issue with question 8, dessa.

” The Government is using bla bla to distract bla bla.”

Only one Government? Or the German Government? Or other countries’ Governments?

If the question is “ are ALL Governments etc ?”, then you have the perfect paranoid conspiracy!

 

All govts.

No not a conspiracy because they`re not all in it together they`re merely using it to their advantage.

In a time when the economy was taking a massive downturn,immigration becoming a hot topic again ,the rise of opposition be it left,right or citizen unrest, the rise in poverty,comes Covid19 like a knight on a white horse to rescue their careers.

Everyone is worried about the economic "crash" but no one is talking about the reasons for it other than it being Coronas fault.Every problem seems to nowadays be the fault of Corona or it has played a massive part in it.

[john g. 37,776]

6 minutes ago, Keleth said:

All govts.

No not a conspiracy because they`re not all in it together they`re merely using it to their advantage.

In a time when the economy was taking a massive downturn,immigration becoming a hot topic again ,the rise of opposition be it left,right or citizen unrest, the rise in poverty,comes Covid19 like a knight on a white horse to rescue their careers.

Everyone is worried about the economic "crash" but no one is talking about the reasons for it other than it being Coronas fault.Every problem seems to nowadays be the fault of Corona or it has played a massive part in it.

This lady agrees with you:

 

 

 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/the-global-economy-was-shattered-before-the-coronavirus/a-53215088

[jeba 4,364]

1 hour ago, Keleth said:

All govts.

Paranoia much?