Landlady not replying to termination

42 posts in this topic

On 8/26/2020, 2:30:53, lunaCH said:

If you have now official confirmation of having given notice, you should be alright. I hope it works out for you.

 

I haven't yet received the official confirmation. Just a whatsapp message but she also a month back said okay about 30th Sep being the last day.

 

Can I hold my rent because I'm worried that I won't be able to get my deposit back in this situation? And also if worse comes to worse and I won't have any contact with her and I need to leave the apartment say 30th Sep. How should I handover the keys/property? Should I just drop it in her mailbox?

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29 minutes ago, zhaider said:

 

I haven't yet received the official confirmation. Just a whatsapp message but she also a month back said okay about 30th Sep being the last day.

 

Can I hold my rent because I'm worried that I won't be able to get my deposit back in this situation? And also if worse comes to worse and I won't have any contact with her and I need to leave the apartment say 30th Sep. How should I handover the keys/property? Should I just drop it in her mailbox?

You could do, if you think at this point that is the only way to ensure you'll not lose money and/or practically the only way she is ever going to get in touch.

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On 8/29/2020, 7:54:18, lunaCH said:

You could do, if you think at this point that is the only way to ensure you'll not lose money and/or practically the only way she is ever going to get in touch.

 

So, I checked my mail box today and I got a confirmation letter from her. In the letter she accepted that the lease termination will begin from 01.07.2020 and the last day will be 30.10.2020.

 

Is it really the case that lease termination starts from next month? I have looked on the internet and so far I found that it includes the month of notice as well upto 3rd working day. So, I'm good with 30th Sep as my last day?

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11 hours ago, zhaider said:

So, I'm good with 30th Sep as my last day?

If the letter states 30.10 then I can only assume that the landlady is expecting rent for October and the 'handover' on 30.10.20 or 2.11.20 depending on your contract.  

Has your housemate already left and given you the money for the rent (September and October)?

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12 hours ago, zhaider said:

 

So, I checked my mail box today and I got a confirmation letter from her. In the letter she accepted that the lease termination will begin from 01.07.2020 and the last day will be 30.10.2020.

 

Is it really the case that lease termination starts from next month? I have looked on the internet and so far I found that it includes the month of notice as well upto 3rd working day. So, I'm good with 30th Sep as my last day?

I think the termination period is three months. If the period starts 1.7 it will end 30.9.

 

I don't think it is legal to have more than three months termination period in your contract. But this would be something to ask the Mieterverein or lawyer. 

 

AFAIK the three working days means that your termination letter must be received at the latest within the first three working days of the month of July ( in your case). For example if the landlord receives the termination letter on the fourth working day of July the termination period starts a month later on 1.8.

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Though in this case communication is poor and there appears to be a misunderstanding. There was also no letter asking for termination of the lease, it was done by messaging.

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On 8/31/2020, 7:51:53, lunaCH said:

If the letter states 30.10 then I can only assume that the landlady is expecting rent for October and the 'handover' on 30.10.20 or 2.11.20 depending on your contract.  

Has your housemate already left and given you the money for the rent (September and October)?

 

No, he's leaving on 30th Sep and he also has stopped giving the rent because of no communication thinking that he won't be able to get the kaution back.

On 8/31/2020, 9:19:32, Namu said:

I think the termination period is three months. If the period starts 1.7 it will end 30.9.

 

I don't think it is legal to have more than three months termination period in your contract. But this would be something to ask the Mieterverein or lawyer. 

 

AFAIK the three working days means that your termination letter must be received at the latest within the first three working days of the month of July ( in your case). For example if the landlord receives the termination letter on the fourth working day of July the termination period starts a month later on 1.8.

 

Yes, I have searched as well and all evidence points to 3 month period. This is the actual text in the termination confirmation:

 

Quote

hiermit bestätige ich den erhalt der Kündigung Ihres bestehenden Mietvertrages vom 01.07.2020. Ihr vertrag endet somit firstgemass zum 31.10.2020.

 

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3 hours ago, zhaider said:

No, he's leaving on 30th Sep and he also has stopped giving the rent because of no communication thinking that he won't be able to get the kaution back.

So, according to her it ends on 30.10.20 and thus she will be expecting September and October to be paid before anyone can speak about getting back the deposit. 

If you are unhappy with the date and feel it should be 30.9., then you need to contact her. 

What exactly happened at the beginning of July, you sent the message, but she only read it much later?

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On 9/1/2020, 8:05:15, lunaCH said:

So, according to her it ends on 30.10.20 and thus she will be expecting September and October to be paid before anyone can speak about getting back the deposit. 

If you are unhappy with the date and feel it should be 30.9., then you need to contact her. 

What exactly happened at the beginning of July, you sent the message, but she only read it much later?

 

Yes, we sent the email in the beg. of July but she didn't read it. Sent many whatsapp messages to which she replied once with okay on 30th Sep. And then no peep from her.

 

Contacting her is and has been the issue since the beginning. Messages aren't being delivered to her. Even I'm worried about my kaution.

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Well, I hope this termination and confirmation through messaging and email will work out for you. We've had a similar discussion here before concerning the correct form for termination of rental contracts. Just for information: https://www.deurag.de/blog/mietvertrag-per-e-mail/

 

Quote

 

Rental agreement: Termination by e-mail
The termination of a rental agreement by e-mail is not permitted by either the landlord or the tenant. According to § 568 BGB, the termination of a lease requires the written form. The requirements for the written form are defined in § 126 BGB. This means: 

The termination must be in written form.
The termination is only effective with a personal signature of the terminating party.
The notice must be signed by all tenants or landlords.
 

If the notice of termination is sent by e-mail, the signature is done electronically - the termination is invalid.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

 

And it's also best to send it per Einschreiben, preferably Einschreiben/Einwurf.

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2 hours ago, bramble said:

And it's also best to send it per Einschreiben, preferably Einschreiben/Einwurf.

Of course, this was said at the beginning of the thread, which was now 1 month ago. 

I hope it works out for the OP too, as of course although they seem to be on friendly terms and now have a confirmation letter, in general if anything goes awry and no letter had ever been sent then the cancellation period wouldn't have even started. :rolleyes:

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9 hours ago, zhaider said:

Even I'm worried about my kaution.

But only half of the deposit is yours. The other half is your housemate's concern. They should not be withholding rent from you just because they are worried about not getting their deposit back. This is wrong. 

If you are so worried about not getting it back then you yourself in turn clearly need to withhold the rent for September and October from the landlady. If you do that she'll soon start trying to contact you. It's getting a bit ridiculous. :rolleyes:

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Withholding the rent is pretty dodgy. 

 

Quote

Those who do not pay the rent often underestimate the consequences. Can't the landlord simply offset the rent owed against the deposit? No, because the deposit is considered untouchable until the end of the tenancy. There are exceptions - but they are expensive.

 

A tenant is not entitled to dispose of the deposit during the rental period. Therefore he may not refer the landlord to the deposit if he cannot pay a rent at all or not in time.

 

The tenant has only after the end of the tenancy a claim to the deposit, so the owners association Haus & Grund Deutschland. Therefore he may not simply stop payments and "live off" the deposit after the termination of his lease. If a tenant should come into delay of payment, the landlord can fall back in exceptional cases to the deposit and settle the rent payments in such a way. In this case, however, he is also entitled to have the tenant replenish the amount.

 

For the tenant it becomes then often more expensive: Because apart from the outstanding rents, which it must pay, interest can result for the payment completion - for the period between the maturity of the rent payment and the set-off of the deposit amount by the landlord. The tenant must transfer this interest to the landlord's account and also pay the outstanding amount on the deposit account. The landlord must invest the deposit in an insolvency-proof account - i.e. separate from his own assets.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

https://www.merkur.de/leben/wohnen/mieter-darf-mit-kaution-keine-mietzahlungen-begleichen-zr-7495701.html

 

The Kaution is paid by the tenant to cover any outstanding payments of the Nebenkostenabrechnung after he has moved out and/or possible damages incurred to the property. It can take about 6 months before you get your deposit back.

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This is what Section 573c of the German Civil Code states re notice periods for rental agreements:

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html#p2569

Quote
Quote

Section 573c
Termination notice periods

(1) Notice of termination is allowed at the latest on the third working day of a calendar month to the end of the second month thereafter.

 

 

As Namu stated above this means that if the notice period started on July 1, it ends on September 30.

 

In light of the landlady's WhatsApp message it might be difficult for her to successfully claim that this email notice did not meet the formal requirements of a written notice. And it will also be difficult to insist on a written notice in case the address of the landlady is outdated and no new address is provided to the tenants.

 

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18 minutes ago, Lenny Nero said:

And it will also be difficult to insist on a written notice in case the address of the landlady is outdated and no new address is provided to the tenants.

Although in this case there was no attempt at a formal written notice. It is not as if a registered letter was sent at the beginning of July and came back to the tenant. 

The tenant only found out that she had moved later. 

Even when an address is outdated, normally if you have property and tenants, you clearly have invoices and other matters to deal with and mail is redirected for a year or two, just to make sure everything comes through. 

Moreover in many cases, unless the landlord owns the entire building and runs it alone with no external assistance, the agency or Verwaltung can be contacted to query what is happening.

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5 hours ago, lunaCH said:

But only half of the deposit is yours. The other half is your housemate's concern. They should not be withholding rent from you just because they are worried about not getting their deposit back. This is wrong. 

If you are so worried about not getting it back then you yourself in turn clearly need to withhold the rent for September and October from the landlady. If you do that she'll soon start trying to contact you. It's getting a bit ridiculous. :rolleyes:

True only half is mine. This is exactly what I'm hoping for that she will get in contact.

 

5 hours ago, bramble said:

Withholding the rent is pretty dodgy. 

 

https://www.merkur.de/leben/wohnen/mieter-darf-mit-kaution-keine-mietzahlungen-begleichen-zr-7495701.html

 

The Kaution is paid by the tenant to cover any outstanding payments of the Nebenkostenabrechnung after he has moved out and/or possible damages incurred to the property. It can take about 6 months before you get your deposit back.

 

I understand and to be honest I wouldn't want to do that but I'm truly worried that I won't get in contact with her even if I stayed until Oct, let alone Sep. I actually started to believe that even the handover won't happen and I'll have to drop the keys to her letter box. So, there's less for getting/adjusting the kaution afterwards. If she ever conacts me after I'll gladly address her concerns regarding any claims for damages etc. Do you think if worse comes to worse, to protect my self against wrong damage claims should I take photos of the apartment before dropping the keys to her mail box?

 

It's a really bad situation and I really wished I wasn't in it. Another thing that makes me worried is I have to sign self disclosure for new apartments and it pinches me when I select that I never withold rent, which is neither truth nor a lie due to this.

 

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3 hours ago, zhaider said:

Do you think if worse comes to worse, ...

 

As others have already recommended, I really do think you should join a Mieterverein. They will have all the answers you need. 

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18 hours ago, bramble said:

 

 

 

As others have already recommended, I really do think you should join a Mieterverein. They will have all the answers you need. 

Do they communicate/respond in English? And what fees are we looking at?

 

P.S. Just took a closer look at the termination confirmation she sent. The signature on the confirmation is different from that of what we have on rental contract. This keeps getting complicated.

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1 hour ago, zhaider said:

Do they communicate/respond in English?

 

No idea. Maybe they do have someone who does.

 

1 hour ago, zhaider said:

And what fees are we looking at?

 

You pay annually, the fees can vary. Here are some links to Mietervereine in Hamburg:

 

https://www.mieterverein-hamburg.de/de/mitgliedschaft/mitgliedsbeitrag/ 

https://mieterschutz-hamburg.de/mitglied-werden/ 

https://mhmhamburg.de/mitgliedschaft/beitraege

 

and more if you google.

 

1 hour ago, zhaider said:

P.S. Just took a closer look at the termination confirmation she sent. The signature on the confirmation is different from that of what we have on rental contract. This keeps getting complicated.

 

That's why you should join the Mieterverein. They can help sort the muddle out for you and they will also write the necessary correspondence for you, too. 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, bramble said:

 

No idea. Maybe they do have someone who does.

 

 

You pay annually, the fees can vary. Here are some links to Mietervereine in Hamburg:

 

https://www.mieterverein-hamburg.de/de/mitgliedschaft/mitgliedsbeitrag/ 

https://mieterschutz-hamburg.de/mitglied-werden/ 

https://mhmhamburg.de/mitgliedschaft/beitraege

 

and more if you google.

 

 

That's why you should join the Mieterverein. They can help sort the muddle out for you and they will also write the necessary correspondence for you, too. 

 

All right thanks! I'll look into that.:)

 

 

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