Photography law while not photographing

141 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Ludwig13 said:

I can't risk losing and having to pay fees and their fees should I lose.

I understand that, but it still may not go to court in any case since there is the chance they could be bluffing. They will have to prepay court fees - and they also risk losing more money if they lose the case. 

We have prepaid our case's court fees - our lawyer says we have a strong case backed up with evidence and Police reports, we expect at least a partial pay out plus costs to be awarded. 

Our neighbour finds himself in the same position you now find yourself in. He has received a demand for compensation from a lawyer and hitherto he has not paid - he now apparently doesn't even have a lawyer who is dealing with it either. What he probably doesn't realise is that we are taking it further (to court) because he hasn't paid. If our insurance had paid a large sum out to us to cover our losses or if the lawyer had said we had a weak case - we would not have taken it to court and the neighbour would have got away with it all and not paid us anything. 

 

You have to evaluate what the chances are that they will really take it to court, prepaying those fees, risking their money and also whether their case is strong. :)

 

Also, you said you were moving within 12 to 18 months. Where to? Can the move be brought forward?

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5 hours ago, Ludwig13 said:

... we would pay the attorney fees to avoid court, the 1000 blackmail-hostage fee and keep the peace between us as renters and them as our landlord.

 

Keep the peace? Seriously? As you are about to cave into their demands I have to wonder if there is a whole load of history you have omitted from your narrative. You owe them nothing. Or do you? They are blackmailing you. Do you think they will stop at this incident if they find they are onto a good thing?

 

3 hours ago, Ludwig13 said:

I can't risk losing and having to pay fees and their fees.

 

I'm not going to play victim when I played a substantial role in it's escalation and outcome.

They are using scare tactics. If they want something from a court they have to provide the court with something. They have absolutely nothing. As for playing victim, read your own words again. Especially "substantial". I'm guessing there's more to your story. But life is short. I hope you find your peace.

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Just to follow up on my last comment when I said I would pop into the camera shop. 

 

My wife had to get tested for Corona (she was clear) but for two days we had to stay in, so I was unable to go however I went today. 

 

The man I spoke to said that if soneone questioned him displaying cameras in a camera shop window he wouldn't even waste time having a conversation with them and would wait until it went to court because he knows he would win. 

 

His view on your specific situation was along the lines of - sure there was a camera left out somewhere but assuming it was being used to commit a crime is like assuming that every car parked near a bank is being used as a getaway car. 

 

I've simplified it because he was very animated and angry (not at me but with people who create these situations, I assume he's heard a lot of stories) but the gist was that other people's paranoia is not your concern and in his experience the courts will feel the same way unless there is evidence to the contrary. 

 

Unrelated - there is a quote box I cannot delete below that appears every time I try to reply to anything. You can ignore it. 

 

On 7/20/2020, 5:49:10, yourkeau said:

 

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1 hour ago, DaringD said:

other people's paranoia is not your concern and in his experience the courts will feel the same way unless there is evidence to the contrary. 

Good post. And this is exactly why the OP should not pay anything even when threatened with this letter and possible court action. The OP is firstly not legally obliged to pay anything to anyone at this stage. It might not go to court, in which case, the OP still doesn't need to pay anything. 

It might go to court. If it does, then the OP may have to prepay some lawyer costs. But as for having to pay court fees, compensation etc. - this will only come about if OP loses the case. If the OP wins then even his own lawyer fees will have to be paid by the other side. 

All in all the best thing to do, ordinarily and on principal, would be not to pay anything until legally obliged to do so. For the amount being asked for and the possible flimsy evidence, I think it is entirely worth the 'risk'. 

 

The fact that the OP is a tenant of the same person who wants money, is an entirely separate matter. The landlord may try to get rid of the OP, just because the OP didn't pay, but the OP can fight this and try to delay the ending of the lease as well. 

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I don´t understand on what basis the legal cost insurance refuted your claim. AFAIK if you want to fight that decision you can do so and they have to pay your lawyer doing it. That´s I would do (after making sure that my memory is right/applies to your insurance contract)  while paying the € 585.- under reservation and without acknowledgement of a legal obligation.

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On 23/07/2020, 14:35:33, Ludwig13 said:

600 bucks, lesson learned. As ridiculous as this is, I feel extremely violated

Have you since paid this?

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10 minutes ago, lunaCH said:

Have you since paid this?

Just read up here -unbelievable story- and would like to know the status here too.

 

On 7/21/2020, 8:03:37, john g. said:

We will do a crowdfunding for you at Xmas for a new camera, Ludwig13!😀😂

I'd be more interested in crowdfunding a legal response!!

 

On 7/23/2020, 2:35:33, Ludwig13 said:

I could have moved the camera when they came bitching. I didn't do that, so I blame myself. I'm not going to play victim when I played a substantial role in it's escalation and outcome.

You made no photos of anyone and this is recorded on the SD card. There is no evidence of any wrong-doing! Paying the legal costs of your landlord is not paying damages, since no decision against you has been taken.

 

On 7/23/2020, 3:43:39, kiil said:

get a lawyer to advise how you should precede and respond to your landlord's attorney Mahnung.

sounds like good advice to me!

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On 7/26/2020, 5:09:14, jeba said:

I don´t understand on what basis the legal cost insurance refuted your claim. AFAIK if you want to fight that decision you can do so and they have to pay your lawyer doing it. That´s I would do (after making sure that my memory is right/applies to your insurance contract)  while paying the € 585.- under reservation and without acknowledgement of a legal obligation.

Both of our insurances said that I had intentionally broken the law by having my camera in the position it was in. By assumption, they did not want to pay for representation that I would lose the case and the costs would be deferred to them. It was irresponsible for me to have the camera where it was, but there was NO intention of using the camera where it was placed. I was rather pissed at the insurance for their denial.

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I've had a very difficult time with my landlords for the three years living here. I can list the issues, but it's a mute point. Bottom line is, I've felt in the right in every situation but was always brushed off by them until they finally did fix the problems I was complaining about. Without a 100% guarantee that I could win anything against them, I chose not to battle.

I am unable to work, my wife is the primary wage earner and we don't have the money to risk a loss. Therefore, for us, it was cheaper to pay the money then create an even more hostile environment with our landlords. 
NO, I do not agree that we caved in to the demands and I had to discuss my frustrations to my wife, but we both decided that we would settle this as peacefully as possible and let the drama, irritation and hostility go. The camera is moved, the camera will never be in a visible position again and I have nothing to do with them unless it affects our apartment directly. As I said, there are still ongoing issues and concerns we have about things they are doing, but our voices fall on deaf ears. They will do nothing about the things they are doing for themselves at a non-monetary cost to us. (not going to discuss it here)

We paid, it's over and I am looking forward to the day we can get moved and yes, it is in the works. We are just waiting.

Thanks again and wow, this thread took some crazy turns at times, but it did help me with some direction and information.

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45 minutes ago, Ludwig13 said:

... it was cheaper to pay the money...

NO, I do not agree that we caved in to the demands

 

I am sorry you have had to deal with such exploitative people. You surely have your own reasons for paying money you did not owe.

 

I sincerely hope you are members of the Mietverein because getting your Kaution back and leaving their property without renovating the place at your own expense - can you see them coming? - looms. Join now if you haven't already. You are likely going to need them.

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When it comes to some legal battles, caving is not a word i'd use.
It's paying the small amount to avoid risking paying a bigger amount later.
 

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1 hour ago, Ludwig13 said:

We paid, it's over

You paid an amount to them. There is nothing to stop any of them sending further demands however, especially since they now know you simply pay them. ;) I mean, is there any written agreement signed by all parties to say that it's over?! :unsure:

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Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but I'm guessing when he called the legal insurance the way he presented the case - charged with crime, broke law, rather than idiot landlord is what turned them decline coverage, we don't cover criminal law. Again this is such an unusual situation who'd know what to ask not ask. Again it's the reason why you have a good agent, you call them first for advice on how to proceed.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Rushrush said:

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but I'm guessing when he called the legal insurance the way he presented the case - charged with crime, broke law, 

:huh: But has the OP actually been charged with anything?

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3 hours ago, lunaCH said:

:huh: But has the OP actually been charged with anything?

No but my point was someone accused him of a crime and course legal insurance doesn¡t cover that

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It depends, Rushrush- you can have a clause built in at extra cost in Strafrechtsschutzversicherung ( for certain professions useful ). But that covers for “ aus Versehen “ and not for deliberate, willful  acts of crime.

You might be “ grassed on “ by someone who doesn’t like you.

But, normally ( mostly ) , even if you have that clause- if you LOSE before the courts- you pay back the costs the legal insurer has incurred.

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13 hours ago, john g. said:

It depends, Rushrush- you can have a clause built in at extra cost in Strafrechtsschutzversicherung ( for certain professions useful ). But that covers for “ aus Versehen “ and not for deliberate, willful  acts of crime.

You might be “ grassed on “ by someone who doesn’t like you.

But, normally ( mostly ) , even if you have that clause- if you LOSE before the courts- you pay back the costs the legal insurer has incurred.

In this case it would have to be proven that the OP acted deliberately or wilfully. Did he?

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