US Army dependent in DE caught allying with neo-Nazis

30 posts in this topic

A dependent of a US service member has had his acceptance to George Mason University rescinded after it was discovered that he had attempted to join a white supremacist/neo-Nazi group.

 

Quote

The controversy stems from a May blog post from a group calling itself the Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists alleging that then-incoming GMU freshman Andrew Brewer attempted to join Patriot Front, which the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) describes as “a white supremacist group whose members maintain that their ancestors conquered America and bequeathed it solely to them.”

The post said that the group had ensnared Brewer into what’s known as a honeypot — similar to police sting operations — meaning that the Colorado Springs group posed as the Patriot Front organization and took screenshots of its correspondences with Brewer and recorded members’ phone conversations with him. Among the posted recordings include Brewer describing himself as a “neo-fascist” and decrying the fact that he couldn’t display swastikas he had collected in public in Germany; Brewer said that he collected them as “historical artifacts.” Brewer is currently based in Germany.

Additionally, Brewer can be heard saying that he didn’t have an opinion on Israel “because I only get the side of ‘oh we need to save Israel, oh the Jews are oppressed’ and I just want to hear the other side … I’m more on the side of people need to stay in their own damn country.” He also discusses how excited he is that he can talk to Patriot Front because the organization shares his view.

The post also captures screenshots that seem to indicate that Brewer joined Stormfront, the neo-Nazi internet forum, and that Brewer stated on his Reddit account that he wants “to remove minorities.”


So, who would like to comment on this service member's failure to control his/her dependents? I know from personal experience with a former military tenant of mine hat promotions and transfers, as well as the permission to reside off-base, can be held up by a failure to control your dependents. Is Germany now obliged to be sure they are not importing hate along with their desirable guests?

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, an American living in Germany says " I’m more on the side of people need to stay in their own damn country. ".  I wonder if he is aware of the irony.  

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, BradinBayern said:

So, an American living in Germany says " I’m more on the side of people need to stay in their own damn country. ".  I wonder if he is aware of the irony.  

 

I wonder what his TT account name is.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, BradinBayern said:

So, an American living in Germany says " I’m more on the side of people need to stay in their own damn country. ".  I wonder if he is aware of the irony.  

 

I wonder if he's aware of his surroundings

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@silty1 Many US military service members and their dependents are under the misconception that US military bases are US soil and, therefore, operate under US law. They are actually not US soil

 

Quote

Although the SOFA determines your legal status, it is important to understand that German law applies to U.S. personnel both on and off base.  U.S. installations are not U.S. soil.  Additionally, while there are many similarities between German and U.S. law, there are also many stark differences.  For example, spanking or paddling children as a means of punishment for disobedience is prohibited under German criminal law.  German law considers it “physical punishment,” which makes it tantamount to child abuse. .  German civil law also differs quite a bit from what most may be familiar with in the U.S.  Read on to learn about key differences between German and U.S. law and if you have questions please contact the Legal Center on Kelley Barracks.  Additionally, make sure you attend the Legal in-processing brief offered weekly on Panzer Kaserne at the Central Processing Facility.

 

So, I am wondering what the penalty will be for this dependent's violation of German laws, specifically  § 86 StGB.

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Brewer didn't break any laws in Virginia or Colorado, or apparently Germany, and apparently he would contribute to a diversity of viewpoints at GMU, but still GMU revoked his admission.  It's GMU's right.  But is it right?

 

As to Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists recording the audio conversations with Brewer, that's legal in Colorado and Virginia.  But not in Germany.  I wonder if the calls originated from Brewer in Germany or from Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists in Colorado?  And if so how German law on recording might apply, 201 StGB.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@DoubleDTown First, there has been no determination that he did not violate  § 86 StGB  unless you somehow believe that the items of Nazi memorabilia in his collection simply appeared by themselves. Also, he did violate GMU's policy on student conduct as stated in the click-through (remember, with me, there is always a supporting click-through that it will behoove you to read).

 

Quote

Per GMU's Undergraduate Admissions Policies, "Mason reserves the right to rescind offers of admission if applicants fail to (1) successfully complete their current academic program, (2) maintain grades that meet the requirements for admission to George Mason, and (3) exhibit exemplary personal conduct prior to enrollment.

 

Now, unless you think being a self-described white supremacist is exemplary personal conduct, at which point we cease having a difference of opinion and have, instead, a difference of morality, GMU absolutely was required to rescind the offer of enrollment.

 

Really. Next time please read all click-throughs available. It will save server space when no one has to tell you what you should have already read.

Edited to correct: I should have correctly called the memorabilia Nazi memorabilia. I do not judge Germans by their worst moment in history.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, it is important to note that attempting to join a terrorist organization, as this young man did, is a criminal offense in Germany.

 

Certainly, you would want any person trying to join ISIS arrested. Why would anyone support any person trying to join Patriot Front, not only violating the laws on terrorist organizations, but also stirring the pot with regards to the host country's genocidal past, a past from which it would like to heal?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And there is always the fact that photocopying military, government IDs illegal. Not only is it unwise to photocopy military and government IDs or common access cards (CAC), it's actually illegal under Title 18, U.S. Code Part I, Chapter 33, Section 701, and is punishable by fine and imprisonment.

 

This is all pretty basic stuff, @DoubleDTown. The way you chimed in here, I would have thought you knew all of this.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, AlexTr said:

@silty1 Many US military service members and their dependents are under the misconception that US military bases are US soil and, therefore, operate under US law. They are actually not US soil

 

I was kind of getting at his cognitive ability...

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, silty1 said:

 

I was kind of getting at his cognitive ability...

 

Well, that too.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

So, an American living in Germany says " I’m more on the side of people need to stay in their own damn country. ".  I wonder if he is aware of the irony.  

 

Not defending him at all, but the Army is not really known for granting requests...

 

Drill Sargent Sir, could you please send me to Key West? I am a beach kinda guy.

 

Sure, Here is your camo speedo...now assume the position...

 

Which is, of course, the opening line in Shaving Ryan's Privates...

 

 

sorry, it's been a while

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, AlexTr said:

@DoubleDTown First, there has been no determination that he did not violate  § 86 StGB 

 

let's stick with "innocent until proven guilty" rather than "not yet determined to be innocent".  Sec. 86 bans dissemination of propaganda material, not stockpiling of memorabilia

 

21 hours ago, AlexTr said:

@DoubleDTown he did violate GMU's policy on student conduct as stated in the click-through (remember, with me, there is always a supporting click-through that it will behoove you to read)

 

 

Now that you have taken the server space to explain what you mean, I agree, he's arguably violated GMU's policy. 

 

21 hours ago, AlexTr said:

@DoubleDTown Really. Next time please read all click-throughs available. It will save server space when no one has to tell you what you should have already read.

 

As to clicking-through...  Call me a Gen-X old fogey but I tend to read what I see and not follow links.  I encourage you to consider us oldies and put your thoughts on the initial post rather than linking.  Without an express notation that it's important to read some linked-to material I don't think it's reasonable to anticipate readers will have followed a link.  I understand you strongly disagree.  :-)

 

17 hours ago, AlexTr said:

attempting to join a terrorist organization, as this young man did, is a criminal offense in Germany.

any person trying to join Patriot Front, ... violating the laws on terrorist organizations

 

that would have been something good to put in the original post.  I only understood Patriot Front to be white supremacist oriented and disliked by ADL, not designated by Deutschland as a terror group.  (perhaps that info was available to those that followed a link?)

 

17 hours ago, AlexTr said:

photocopying military, government IDs illegal.

 

that would have been something good to put in the original post too.  I am unaware of what ID he copied.  (perhaps that info was available to those that followed a link?)

 

21 hours ago, AlexTr said:

Edited to correct: I should have correctly called the memorabilia Nazi memorabilia. I do not judge Germans by their worst moment in history.

 

You've definitely gone native. :-)   Germans love to refer to "the Nazis" as distinct from "the Germans".  But somehow it's the USA that dropped the atom bomb, not Truman-USA.  And it's the USA that enslaved people, not pre-Lincoln-USA.  Yeah, not perfect analogies and one can argue the U.S. has had a continuity of government, but I think my point is clear.

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 24.6.2020, 20:56:29, tor said:

Drill Sargent Sir, could you please send me to Key West? I am a beach kinda guy.

That reminds me of when I was conscripted and we were asked where we want to be stationed. One of my mates said he wanted to stay in Bayern. He was posted to the destroyer "Bayern". Somehow he failed to appreciate the humour.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@DoubleDTown Well, I'm also Gen X and we are a reading and information generation. Not being inquisitive enough to read everything yet feeling like you can pop off about what you don't know about sounds more like entitled laziness than a generational issue.

 

If you think the American principles of jurisprudence hold water on German soil,  it's pretty clear that you might need to read more.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/24/2020, 10:46:15, DoubleDTown said:

So Brewer didn't break any laws in Virginia or Colorado, or apparently Germany, and apparently he would contribute to a diversity of viewpoints at GMU, but still GMU revoked his admission.  It's GMU's right.  But is it right?

 

As to Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists recording the audio conversations with Brewer, that's legal in Colorado and Virginia.  But not in Germany.  I wonder if the calls originated from Brewer in Germany or from Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists in Colorado?  And if so how German law on recording might apply, 201 StGB.

Yes, it is right, to answer your question.

As to your second question, no laws were broken in the jurisdictions of Colorado or Virginia. Just as you cannot drive at unlimited speed in the US and then claim you did so because it is legal in Germany, you cannot record a call in Germany and use as a defense that it is legal in Virginia. Jurisdiction matters. I could advocate that you and your kind be eradicated by being slowly pulled apart between two tractors, but I don't think that means I have a right to contribute my viewpoint to the diversity of viewpoints in civilized society. Do you?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BobCov said:

Yes, it is right, to answer your question.

As to your second question, no laws were broken in the jurisdictions of Colorado or Virginia. Just as you cannot drive at unlimited speed in the US and then claim you did so because it is legal in Germany, you cannot record a call in Germany and use as a defense that it is legal in Virginia. Jurisdiction matters. I could advocate that you and your kind be eradicated by being slowly pulled apart between two tractors, but I don't think that means I have a right to contribute my viewpoint to the diversity of viewpoints in civilized society. Do you?

The recording was done in Colorado.  Where the call came from is immaterial.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AlexTr said:

@DoubleDTown sounds more like entitled laziness

 

that's it.  my white privilege means I only have to read the comments, not follow links when the commenter didn't write  "you gotta read everything I link to or you won't know what I'm saying"

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, DoubleDTown said:

my white privilege means

 

Thanks for continuing to push this thread to the top by being obtuse.

That awkward moment when you want to be oppressed so bad you start ...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/24/2020, 8:45:16, AlexTr said:

a group calling itself the Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists 

had ensnared Brewer into what’s known as a honeypot

and recorded members’ phone conversations with  Brewer

Brewer is currently based in Germany.

 

 

 

On 6/24/2020, 10:46:15, DoubleDTown said:

As to Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists recording the audio conversations with Brewer, that's legal in Colorado and Virginia.  But not in Germany.  I wonder if the calls originated from Brewer in Germany or from Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists in Colorado?  And if so how German law on recording might apply, 201 StGB.

 

GDPR violation?  The EU wrote: "The GDPR only applies to organizations engaged in “professional or commercial activity.”   (I understand some Toytowners like links, check this for more info on how the EU thinks the GDPR applies outside the EU: https://gdpr.eu/companies-outside-of-europe/)

 

I suppose the Colorado group would contend it is non-commercial and thus exempt to GDPR requirements?   I'm not sure that is correct though, I think the EU means more that individuals are exempt when doing personal stuff and not that non-profit organizations are exempt from GDPR compliance. Has this been made clear in the last 2 years?  (I'm too entitled to research further and thus ask the community to assist me)

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now