Riots in Stuttgart

187 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Namu said:

Imagine a crime committed by a migrant and the same crime committed by a native. Is the judiciary system more likely to send the migrant in prison and lets the native get off with a warning or Bewährung?

Asking him to think outside of his tiny box is too much for him.  He sees what he wants to see.  Foreigners may well disproportionately commit crimes, but until/unless evidence based data is collected and analyzed there is simply no good way to tease out what that true statistic is and to effectively address whatever underlying contributors exist.  And that requires an open mindedness on the part of the populous, elected officials, bureaucrats, and academics.  Germany is a lovely place, but like other societies it has its share of people who are willing to scapegoat the foreigner, or the "perceived" foreigner, in order to distract from the issues of the native population.

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1 hour ago, Namu said:

No you didn't. You justified your opinion based on nothing except your opinion.

If you think my opinion is wrong let me quote our dear friend Alex:

 

14 hours ago, AlexTr said:

Prove it.

Refuting a claim that judicial bias can account for an overrepresentation of a few hunderd percent is simply not worth my time.

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22 hours ago, jeba said:

On Saturday there were riots in Frankfurt as well.

source: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/frankfurt-krawallmacher-vom-opernplatz-sind-jung-und-polizeibekannt-16869063-p2.html

 

This is what creates prejudice. And for clarification: I don´t mean that it´s reported.

On 6/24/2020, 10:47:53, DoubleDTown said:

 

On 6/24/2020, 10:47:53, DoubleDTown said:

 

 

The majority of people who live in Frankfurt are not native Germans, so if the majority arrested are not native Germans that in itself is no statistical evidence that non-native Germans are more likely to be arrested than native Germans.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4652002/Native-Germans-minority-Germany.html

 

Unless you have more precise figures, you have to admit you are jumping to conclusions.

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5 minutes ago, arsenal21 said:

 

The majority of people who live in Frankfurt are not native Germans, so if the majority arrested are not native Germans that in itself is no statistical evidence that non-native Germans are more likely to be arrested than native Germans.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4652002/Native-Germans-minority-Germany.html

 

Unless you have more precise figures, you have to admit you are jumping to conclusions.

I doubt that the majority of Frankfurt residents aren´t Germans. Apart from that Frankfurt isn´t part of Bavaria, the numbers of which I mentioned.

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16 minutes ago, arsenal21 said:

The majority of people who live in Frankfurt are not native Germans, so if the majority arrested are not native Germans that in itself is no statistical evidence that non-native Germans are more likely to be arrested than native Germans.

 

You are manipulating the figures. The majority of people with non-German background came from other European countries. 

 

Quote

According to data from the city register of residents, 51.2% of the population had a migration background as of 2015, which means that a person or at least one or both of their parents was born with foreign citizenship. For the first time, a majority of the city residents had an at least part non-German background.[28] Moreover, three of four children in the city under the age of six had immigrant backgrounds.[29] and 27.7% of residents had a foreign citizenship.[30]

According to statistics, 46.7% of immigrants in Frankfurt come from other countries in The European Union, 24.5% of immigrants in Frankfurt come from European countries that are not part of the EU, 15.7% of immigrants in Frankfurt come from Asia (including Western Asia and South Asia), 7.3% of immigrants in Frankfurt come from Africa, 3.4% of immigrants in Frankfurt come from North America (Including the Caribbean and Central America), 0.2% of immigrants in Frankfurt come from Australia and Zealandia, 2.3% of immigrants in Frankfurt come from South America and 1.1% of immigrants in Frankfurt come from The Pacific Island Nations. Because of this, the city is often considered to be a multicultural city and has been compared to New York City and London.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt#Immigration/Foreign_Nationals

 

But this post

23 hours ago, jeba said:

On Saturday there were riots in Frankfurt as well.

Quote

Der Großteil der Festgenommen hat einen Migrationshintergrund, viele kommen aus Syrien, der Türkei, Marokko und Spanien.

deepl-translation:

The majority of those arrested have a migrant background, many come from Syria, Turkey, Morocco and Spain.

source: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/frankfurt-krawallmacher-vom-opernplatz-sind-jung-und-polizeibekannt-16869063-p2.html

 

This is what creates prejudice. And for clarification: I don´t mean that it´s reported.

shows that the arrested people were mainly from other countries. 

 

So there is no need to pull the owl on the globe

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32 minutes ago, jeba said:

I doubt that the majority of Frankfurt residents aren´t Germans. Apart from that Frankfurt isn´t part of Bavaria, the numbers of which I mentioned.

It says it in the link I posted. I’d have thought you’d be the sort to believe the Daily Mail.

 

You quoted an article about Frankfurt in the post I responded to.

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40 minutes ago, GoldenJoe said:

 

You are manipulating the figures. The majority of people with non-German background came from other European countries. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt#Immigration/Foreign_Nationals

 

But this post

shows that the arrested people were mainly from other countries. 

 

So there is no need to pull the owl on the globe

I just made the distinction between native Germans and everyone else. If you want to make further distinctions, then the statistics gets complicated:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratified_sampling

 

If you have more precise figures, feel free to post them.

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Reality Check: Are migrants driving crime in Germany?

 

Quote

In 2014, German men between the ages of 14 and 30 made up 9% of the population and were responsible for half of all the country's violent crimes.

When it comes to the new arrivals, men aged 16 to 30 made up 27% of all asylum-seekers who came in 2015.

"It is because of the demographics," claims Dr Dominic Kudlacek, from the Criminological Research Unit of Lower Saxony. "Whether they're asylum seekers or EU migrants, they are younger than the average population and mostly male. Young men commit more crimes in every society."

 

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1 hour ago, jeba said:

What´s your point? This is common knowledge, isn´t it?

 

That what you claim is an immigrant problem is actually a gender and age problem. Thanks for admitting that you know the issue is young males and not anything about immigrant status. I guess we're done here.

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14 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

 

That what you claim is an immigrant problem is actually a gender and age problem. Thanks for admitting that you know the issue is young males and not anything about immigra5status. I guess we're done here.

Until the next racist thing he says, anyway.

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If the crime problem is a function of age and gender, it can inform immigration policy.  z.B, what are possible impacts of having an immigration policy that results in large numbers of young males immigrating?

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@DoubleDTown I would think that question beneath the intellect of most TT posters since it demonstrates an entire lack of understanding about gender-based discrimination laws in Germany.  Since we're all either Germans or foreigners with an obligation to understand GG, we would all know that it would be unconstitutional for the German government to design immigration policy around gender.

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13 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

@DoubleDTown most TT posters ... know that it would be unconstitutional for the German government to design immigration policy around gender.


I think gender is considered in many policy areas everyday,.  For example, quotas for corporate boards.  Not too long ago, involuntary military service.  Etc.

 

(and don't forget the intentionally oppressive "gender tax" on feminine hygiene products...   I suppose you can guess where I stand on that theory)   

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For any country to operate itself it has to know what is going on both within and without its borders.  Part of that is identifying what factors result in riots.  If some of those factors involve age, gender, education, whatever it needs to be identified so a solution can be found to avoid future riots.  It one finds that riots happen when X group collects together, then steps should be taken to either change the behavior of X group or the influences that cause X group to engage in that behavior, or steps should be taken to avoid X group gathering, or steps should be taken to provide extra security when X group does gather, etc.  i.e., figure out the problem and implement a solution.  But we shouldn't give up finding a solution just because discussing national origin or race might be possibly involved in the process.   

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34 minutes ago, DoubleDTown said:

If the crime problem is a function of age and gender, it can inform immigration policy.  z.B, what are possible impacts of having an immigration policy that results in large numbers of young males immigrating?

 

For example, if one thought to oneself one day:  "I will make a statement that will unintentionally cause people throughout the world to think if they cross the German border they can likely stay here";  and then a few months later one might consider the demographics of who is crossing the border and trying to stay in Germany and one might then think to oneself, "are these demographics good or bad and if other than good what should one do next?"

 

And if  one doesn't consider demographics, how can one plan for the future?  Should more schools be built?  More housing?  What type of people need the housing?  Singles, families?   Are the people old or young?  Do we need for nursing care facilities?  Job training programs?  Wheelchairs manufactured for all the old immgrants? Social workers?  Police?  Language teachers?  More doses of vaccines for children?

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@DoubleDTown Nope, sometimes the morally correct thing is socially complicated. It's still more critical to be morally correct. 

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1 hour ago, AlexTr said:

 

That what you claim is an immigrant problem is actually a gender and age problem. Thanks for admitting that you know the issue is young males and not anything about immigrant status.

You make it sound as if I had ever said it wasn´t - which isn´t true. I even remember that already decades ago a colleague working for the Bundeswehr told me there had been protests of local residents in Roth (Bavaria) demanding to close down the local Bunderswehr facilities because they were fed up with too many young men (i. e. German soldiers) in their small town.

 

12 minutes ago, DoubleDTown said:

think gender is considered in many policy areas everyday,

Only yesterday I read that there are suggestions to introduce quotas for male medical students (i.- e. increase their percentage above 50%) because too many female physicians dropped out of their carreers once they become pregnant - leading to a shortage of physicians. That women are overrepresented among medical students is because they on average have better marks than males and therefore are more likely to get into medical school.

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1 minute ago, AlexTr said:

t's still more critical to be morally correct. 

 

And that is the difference between a "social justice warrior" and actually getting things done.

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Nope, it's the difference between being a moral and an immoral person,  but you knew that because it's baked right in.

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