Black BAME and POC supporters of Trump

798 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, balticus said:

🤪🤪

 

Good luck Keleth.   I hope you don't have kids.

He didn`t grow up like you so I`m happy

 

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7 hours ago, john g. said:

Isn‘t that an argument for getting rid of lockdown?

Not really. Absence of evidence isn´t the same as evidence of absence.

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8 hours ago, john g. said:

Isn‘t that an argument for getting rid of lockdown?

If you could trust 100% of people to wear a mask then it could maybe.

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On 22/06/2020, 04:39:43, jeba said:

What are you talking about? I can´t even figure out whether or not you agree with me. I was pointing out that "multiculturalism" might be unavoidable but that it has it´s downside. Are you saying it doesn´t increase the likelyhood of tensions within society? Just look at the banlieus in Southern France or the recent riots in Stuttgart if you don´t believe me. Btw. In Stuttgart there were 34 persons arrested last night, only 12 of them Germans (and of those 12 there were 3 with an immigrant background). You won´t deny that foreigners/immigrants seem to be overrepresented among rioters, will you? This will obviously lead to lack of equal treatment as people will be more suspicious when e. g. having to decide who to rent out to or who to employ? And it will lead to the AfD risining further. Just read the comments on youtube videos about the Stuttgart riots if you don´t believe my latter point.

 

 

If I start working at a new company and arrived for my first day I would be more or less assured of the following things.

 

The company would be nice to me. I would be greeted warmly. I would be introduced to everyone or at least the people I would be working with. I would be given time to settle in. Allowances would be made for the fact that I am new. Management would keep a close eye on making sure that everyone is in line with the general drive to welcome me. Company operations would be explained to me in detail if I so require it. Etc.

 

Why do they do this? Because if they didn't the chances of a successful integration of me into the company would be much lower. If they didn't do this they would be working against their own interests and would make a mockery of letting me join the company in the first place. If instead of this staff were aggressive, refused to help or give me information, locked me out of social groups, management were complicit in it, etc then for a 3rd party observer the behaviour of the host company would be a major factor in a less than successful integration a new member of staff.

 

Somehow when "immigrants" arrive in Germany some people think it is reasonable that the same principles should not apply. Even though we all know and have experience of how not doing so would be considered absurd in other areas of society.

 

If the host nation is remiss in doing what it can to ensure a successful integration then failure is a natural and likely consequence. To uniquely blame those who have little to no power to actually change how that integration is being done is a failure of rational.

 

If you lock these youth out of being equal stakeholders in the society then why would they view society the same as those that are ceded those advantages.

 

If you insult or restrict someone on one occasion they may or may not react but if you do so continuously over an extend period you will probably end up with someone who doesn't care what you think and who in their heart of hearts really doesn't like you.

 

Calling more police and clamping down on them is not the solution. Has anyone even tried to ask them what they actually want? Has anyone actually looked at whether what they want is rational? Germany (ex. berlin) refuses to institute proper anti-discrimination laws. Why should they care two figs about a society that doesn't care about them?

 

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1 hour ago, claudeyc said:

If I start working at a new company and arrived for my first day I would be more or less assured of the following things.

Apart from that this is an ideal which I´m afraid is more often not reflecting reality than it does you can´t equate a company with a society. Company management can expect employees to adhere to it´s demands and standards and employees who refuse to do so can be fired. Governments can´t expect that from citizens to the same degree and it can´t fire them.

 

1 hour ago, claudeyc said:

Calling more police and clamping down on them is not the solution.

But it may well have to be part of the solution. Of course, police can´t solve the underlying problems. But at least they should be able to expect that government and society try to help them doing their job. If rioters are vandalising your neighbourhood, setting your car on fire and looting your shop you can´t wait for the work of social workers coming to fruition. That doesn´t mean you shouldn´t try to avoid the underlying problems (inequality if educational chances, lack of immigration control, unemployment etc.) and that there isn´t a lot of room for improvement.

 

1 hour ago, claudeyc said:

Germany (ex. berlin) refuses to institute proper anti-discrimination laws. Why should they care two figs about a society that doesn't care about them?

Because by acting as criminals they will only make their situation worse ? E. g. it doesn´t exactly help you find a job if your police clearance certificate contains entries of violent crimes. Also, to quite an extent what you call discrimination may well be acknowledgement that some groups pose a bigger risk than others, just like residents of Gütersloh might complain that they discriminated against for having a bigger risk of being vectors of coronavirus and aren´t allowed to come to stay in Bavaria. E. g. I´m partial owner of a renatl property. In more than 50 years we (or my granparents from whom I inherited part of it) never had problems with German tenants. However, one Ukrainian tenant did not only not pay rent but when we finally got him out he took the heating radiators and a glass sliding door with him. He simply left the country so there was no chance of holding him liable. We´re also currently suing another tenant from Turkey for misbehaviour (noise pollution) and not paying his deposit and rent. Would you blame us for being more cautious in the future when selecting tenants?

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2 hours ago, claudeyc said:

 

If I start working at a new company and arrived for my first day I would be more or less assured of the following things.

 

The company would be nice to me. I would be greeted warmly. I would be introduced to everyone or at least the people I would be working with. I would be given time to settle in. Allowances would be made for the fact that I am new. Management would keep a close eye on making sure that everyone is in line with the general drive to welcome me. Company operations would be explained to me in detail if I so require it. Etc.

 

Why do they do this? Because if they didn't the chances of a successful integration of me into the company would be much lower. If they didn't do this they would be working against their own interests and would make a mockery of letting me join the company in the first place. If instead of this staff were aggressive, refused to help or give me information, locked me out of social groups, management were complicit in it, etc then for a 3rd party observer the behaviour of the host company would be a major factor in a less than successful integration a new member of staff.

 

Somehow when "immigrants" arrive in Germany some people think it is reasonable that the same principles should not apply. Even though we all know and have experience of how not doing so would be considered absurd in other areas of society.

 

If the host nation is remiss in doing what it can to ensure a successful integration then failure is a natural and likely consequence. To uniquely blame those who have little to no power to actually change how that integration is being done is a failure of rational.

 

If you lock these youth out of being equal stakeholders in the society then why would they view society the same as those that are ceded those advantages.

 

If you insult or restrict someone on one occasion they may or may not react but if you do so continuously over an extend period you will probably end up with someone who doesn't care what you think and who in their heart of hearts really doesn't like you.

 

Calling more police and clamping down on them is not the solution. Has anyone even tried to ask them what they actually want? Has anyone actually looked at whether what they want is rational? Germany (ex. berlin) refuses to institute proper anti-discrimination laws. Why should they care two figs about a society that doesn't care about them?

 

That must be the most absurd comparison I have ever heard. You're saying more or less that the host society must bend over backwards to accommodate immigrants. The US, Canada or Australia never did this for European immigrants, yet the latter turned out fine for the most part. Why should Europe's approach be any different? Furthermore, Germany actually does bend over backwards to welcome one category of immigrants, namely refugees. They're entitled to free housing, free healthcare, social welfare payments, etc. Not only that, but civil society is eager to help them, too (look at all the people who volunteer to help refugees in Germany). But you reckon this isn't enough somehow?

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On 6/23/2020, 5:23:03, GerardB said:

 

Well if you're happy to see those in power across the Western world try to shut down and silence all opposition by demonising it as "populist", fine. Personally, I find that quite worrying.

Strange, I didn't actually offer a view on that.

So far you've changed the meaning of populism and also manged to put your own meaning on what i've said.
You don't need a dictionary, you need to brush up on your comprehension.

Either way, deciding that words mean something else isn't going to move you forward in any way, ever.
If you want to test this, I'd suggest speeding and in every conversion with the police change the meaning of the word asshole in your head to what 'Sie' means.
See how far you get and don't forget to let us know how you get on.

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20 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

Either way, deciding that words mean something else isn't going to move you forward in any way, ever.

Tell that to those who claim that speaking of "Mohrenkopf" or running a pharmacy by the name of "Mohren-Apotheke" or is racist. Or that using the German word "Neger" because it somewhat resembles an English word which has a derogarory meaning.

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4 hours ago, claudeyc said:

The company would be nice to me. I would be greeted warmly. I would be introduced to everyone or at least the people I would be working with. I would be given time to settle in. Allowances would be made for the fact that I am new. Management would keep a close eye on making sure that everyone is in line with the general drive to welcome me. Company operations would be explained to me in detail if I so require it. Etc

You obviously never worked for my company :)

 

 

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20 hours ago, john g. said:

Isn‘t that an argument for getting rid of lockdown?

 

The  simple fact is if the authors had published anything else they would have been instantly terminated, not just terminated but publicly shamed and driven from academia. 
 

To quote

 

“… Yet all of the (universities) proudly tout, with no sense of irony, their ‘office of diversity and inclusion,’ fully staffed and generously funded. For them, of course, diversity never includes diverse viewpoints. It’s all about DNA and gender identity. Modern universities are now well-oiled machines to stamp out dissenting views.”

 

There's been loads of recent articles about some poor sod Watching TV surfing the internet and liking the wrong thing. Come Monday 9am his life is completely destroyed. 
 

He goes on to say

 

I was about 12 years old when I read it (Fahrenheit 451) I couldn’t think of a world more frightening than one without books, thoughts, the freedom to speak your mind.

 

That world folks is upon us now.

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-cancel-culture-kass-20200626-zahoolv4jjaezed2p6qlopevrm-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

 

 

 

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@Rushrush: I find it nothing short of frightening how almost all organisations and major corporations have jumped on the bandwagon known as "diversity". It's such a load of horseshit. Whatever happened to meritocracy? Not only that, but in field where men are in the minority (of which there are plenty), there are zero efforts to increase the percentage of men in those fields.

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1 minute ago, GerardB said:

Whatever happened to meritocracy?

 

You think meritocracy existed in the first place?

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@Chocky: Maybe not entirely, but where meritocracy didn't exist, the bias and unfairness was based on social class, not on race or sex, which is what the diversity communists of today would have us believe. The biggest beneficiaries of "diversity" will be women from upper middle class backgrounds. The biggest losers will be white men and boys from less well off and/or less well connected families. I myself come from relatively humble origins (Irish farmers) and I'll be damned if some upper middle class German princess beats me to a promotion just because she happens to be female and I male. Divisive identity politics needs to stop. 

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11 hours ago, cb6dba said:

Strange, I didn't actually offer a view on that.

So far you've changed the meaning of populism and also manged to put your own meaning on what i've said.
You don't need a dictionary, you need to brush up on your comprehension.

Either way, deciding that words mean something else isn't going to move you forward in any way, ever.
If you want to test this, I'd suggest speeding and in every conversion with the police change the meaning of the word asshole in your head to what 'Sie' means.
See how far you get and don't forget to let us know how you get on.

 

If "populism" means responding to the needs of the average man and woman, I'm all for it.

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19 minutes ago, GerardB said:

@Chocky: Maybe not entirely, but where meritocracy didn't exist, the bias and unfairness was based on social class, not on race or sex, which is what the diversity communists of today would have us believe. The biggest beneficiaries of "diversity" will be women from upper middle class backgrounds. The biggest losers will be white men and boys from less well off and/or less well connected families. I myself come from relatively humble origins (Irish farmers) and I'll be damned if some upper middle class German princess beats me to a promotion just because she happens to be female and I male. Divisive identity politics needs to stop. 

I admire anyone. - whether black, white, Asian - whatever - who rises from poverty, discrimination, parental abuse?, poor educational background, and  makes a success of their live- IF- that person is successful with a sound moral compass. This can change in a lifetime- we all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

Just because someone is white, black, whatever- or male or female - are you happy with your moral compass? Or are you blaming other people for YOUR decisions in life? I mean, IF we all accept humans are all equal in their dignity, aren‘t we all intelligent enough to understand that?

Many wrong decisions in my life but mine. Not yours.

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57 minutes ago, Chocky said:

 

You think meritocracy existed in the first place?

Depends on the society/ country. Sort of...

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3 hours ago, GerardB said:

Whatever happened to meritocracy?

 

Indeed.  I liked the days when your CV didn't include your name or photo or school(s) and all the other non-merit info.

 

Mine:

I write good programs.

Call me.  I work for you.

 

It was brief, but to the point and got me where I am today.

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18 hours ago, GerardB said:

That must be the most absurd comparison I have ever heard. You're saying more or less that the host society must bend over backwards to accommodate immigrants. The US, Canada or Australia never did this for European immigrants, yet the latter turned out fine for the most part. Why should Europe's approach be any different? Furthermore, Germany actually does bend over backwards to welcome one category of immigrants, namely refugees. They're entitled to free housing, free healthcare, social welfare payments, etc. Not only that, but civil society is eager to help them, too (look at all the people who volunteer to help refugees in Germany). But you reckon this isn't enough somehow?

 

It's only absurd to black/white thinkers. My point is that it is a two way street and requires adjustments on both sides.

 

Giving people things is not "bending over backwards". We give prisoners things BUT we treat them horribly.

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