Damage done to someone else by moving company - landlord helds me responsible

38 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, canyil said:

Maybe my landlord signed something which says he is responsible with everything in the same address? Then your example would be valid in my case? I'm not sure if that makes sense but:

 

Visitor > (moving company) damaged the white carpet > (stairs) which belongs to the landlord > (company owning the building complex)

 

Can they make a case like this?

I can´t imagine that. And I do have some phantasy..

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Real movers have insurance to cover such things. Your mover was working black and is afraid they will find out about it. I think that is why he doesn't want police coming around. 

 

You paid cash with no receipt. He is not claiming his income or at least some of it on his taxes.

 

Another thought, if he harrasses you again tell him you will turn him into the tax authorities.

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2 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

You paid cash with no receipt. He is not claiming his income or at least some of it on his taxes.

Is this a problem for the person who pays or just a problem for who is working like this and not charging/invoicing/paying VAT?

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The person who paid is not responsible for the mover's taxes, I don't think. One can assume that VAT was included.

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Just now, fraufruit said:

The person who paid is not responsible for the mover's taxes, I don't think. One can assume that VAT was included.

Included? So they could be 'charging' it but then not passing it on to the state - because there is no receipt and so no trace of the transaction/work?! :huh:

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Yes, that is usually how people work off the books.

 

BTW,  I know very little about taxes and am just speculating here. 

 

I stuffed a wad of cash in my hairdresser's pocket after having my hair done after so long and told her to just keep it and that I didn't need a receipt. She has lost 10 yrs. worth of her business savings over the quarantine. 

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2 hours ago, fraufruit said:

Another thought, if he harrasses you again tell him you will turn him into the tax authorities.

Ouch, that's even worse than Chuck.

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3 hours ago, fraufruit said:

The person who paid is not responsible for the mover's taxes, I don't think. One can assume that VAT was included.

I´m not so sure. At least for craftsmen the customer is obligated to keep an invoice (I think) for 2 years. A mover is probably not considered a craftsman though.

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34 minutes ago, jeba said:

I´m not so sure. At least for craftsmen the customer is obligated to keep an invoice (I think) for 2 years. A mover is probably not considered a craftsman though.

But who would ever check/ask for this invoice?

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55 minutes ago, jeba said:

I´m not so sure. At least for craftsmen the customer is obligated to keep an invoice (I think) for 2 years. A mover is probably not considered a craftsman though.

 

Yes, as a warranty for the work. Most people know that no invoice means no warranty but are willing to pay the cheaper price. Some people who do work without invoicing will stand behind their work anyway in order to get return business like car mechanics and such.

 

Many times over the years we have been asked by handworkers and such, "With or without invoice?" when they are making their estimate costs.

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On 6/1/2020, 11:51:41, canyil said:

truck driver made a mistake and made a little scratch to one of the ladders in the courtyard.

 

spend a couple euros and paint the fucking ladder.  problem solved.  no lawyers.  no cops.  no problem.

there are no molehills in germany.

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But ultimately it is the tradesperson/worker who is avoiding paying tax, not the customer. If the trade is off-the-books, there's no invoice, so the issue is between the tradesperson and authorities.

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3 hours ago, lunaCH said:

But ultimately it is the tradesperson/worker who is avoiding paying tax, not the customer. If the trade is off-the-books, there's no invoice, so the issue is between the tradesperson and authorities.

I´m not sure but I seem to remember that at the time this requirement was introduced (only a few years ago) it was made clear that the customer is also obligated to ask for an invoice as the point of it is fighting tax evasion. You´re not allowed to have someone work under table for you.

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On 02/06/2020, 08:43:05, canyil said:

 

Yes I agree with you but i'm no law expert so I don't know my rights here. Should I talk with a lawyer?

 

By the way, did you witness the damage being done? If you were not the witness then your liability is just to pass the contact information of the moving company to the building management. If you are the witness and willing to testify then your words and the other neighbour words should be recorded as a witness and the building management can proceed to recover the costs. In any case, the owner / building management has to file the case. You might be asked to give your testimony. 

 

The law is clear that the grievance party can file a claim for damage against the person who did the damage. 

You don't need the lawyer now. If the management company makes you the accuse then you need the one to defend yourself.

From now on do keep a written note of communications etc. In case you might have to tell your story. 

 

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19 hours ago, fraufruit said:

Real movers have insurance to cover such things. Your mover was working black and is afraid they will find out about it. I think that is why he doesn't want police coming around. 

 

You paid cash with no receipt. He is not claiming his income or at least some of it on his taxes.

 

Another thought, if he harrasses you again tell him you will turn him into the tax authorities.

 

Yes I thought about this but then decided not to go that way. I don't need enemies at this point and if I talk with him again i'll record the call so i'll have proof of harassment. I can take this to the police and maybe it will be enough to get a proctection + hefty compenstation if he does anything.

 

47 minutes ago, vivanco said:

 

By the way, did you witness the damage being done? If you were not the witness then your liability is just to pass the contact information of the moving company to the building management. If you are the witness and willing to testify then your words and the other neighbour words should be recorded as a witness and the building management can proceed to recover the costs. In any case, the owner / building management has to file the case. You might be asked to give your testimony. 

 

The law is clear that the grievance party can file a claim for damage against the person who did the damage. 

You don't need the lawyer now. If the management company makes you the accuse then you need the one to defend yourself.

From now on do keep a written note of communications etc. In case you might have to tell your story. 

 

 

 

I wasn't around when it happened and it happened quite fast. To be honest I didn't see any damage after the accident and it's not possible for me to understand if there was a really damage. Nothing with naked eyes I can see but damaged person says step of the ladder moved back and it's not even with other steps anymore. So I don't want to be a witness to the accident but of course I can be a witness and tell that I called them for moving to my new apartment and they had some problems with one of my neighbors. 

 

I have written proof with all parties, also screenshots and everything but thanks for the tip.

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1 hour ago, canyil said:

f I talk with him again i'll record the call so i'll have proof of harassment.

No - don´t do that as it could land you in hot water as recording calls without informing the other party is illegal. Chances are a court wouldn´t even allow it to be used as evidence.

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