Suing employer for discrimination / wrongful firing

25 posts in this topic

I've read a few posts that during probation employer does not need a strong reason to fire.

I thought nonetheless asking this question as things happened to me feels seriously wrong and should not be happening to someone else. 

 

I was hired to a large company in a manager role. Leading figures of the company was so pleased with international experience, range of tasks I did earlier, and the fact that I constantly improve myself. Easy onboarding process and was pleasant experience during taking up contract.

 

However things got weird in no time:

- 2 weeks no real responsibility, despite asking several times.

- 3. week I had the onboarding talk with my boss who normally sits elsewhere. When I asked, any performance metrics, reviews, he was cool about it and told me after 3rd month he will check in with my supervisor if something needs improvement.   

-  1 week later boss of my boss scheduled a sudden review session, summoned 2 people in my department, one of 2 is supervisor who barely know me or see me doing any task yet. It was absolute HORROR, I heard so much critics starting from my age to experience. Things basically were already on my CV, this was particularly hard as I was totally new, speaking little german, and moved to a different city with my wife who left her job for me. 

- Somehow I managed to put this behind and start focusing on work, putting things together that were all over the place. 

- then another 2 review sessions within weeks, all without a specific reason why we do these, and how they should help and despite asking my boss, and others, nobody could change anything - you know how Germans will never go against their bosses. My boss could not do nothing and when I spoke to HR, asking advice what is happening she simply transmitted whole conversation to this leading figure. So much for confidentiality. 

 

I finally asked myself how long they want to carry on doing this and when I can feel myself part of the team or receive feedback in a specific, measurable manner so we can actually check my performance.

 

They said that there is no hidden agenda this reviews normal (no one had this many without reasons and at the request of big man nobody can say nothing against)  Basically this guy made me a side project that was failing miserably because he had no idea what he is doing and or he simply did not care. 

 

I was still working and could not really care this nonsense but then I was summoned and said that they will let me go. I am still waiting something in writing but the whole ordeal is pure nonsense. You should not hire and fire someone. 

 

To my question, given all of this happening within 3 months of my starting (another 2 months notice period will continue). My wife left her job, we have to now leave Germany for good and so much more trouble. This guy should not be allowed to play silly games and ruin people's career and personal life. Is there a legal action you would recommend in this case or probation period no reason required rule still apply ? 

 

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Although I would be happy if someone can tell you that you have legal ground, I highly doubt it. Changing jobs in Germany is high risk.

In my team we have also fired a few people on probation, one after 4 months and another after just one week. It happens. We also fired a guy after 9 months, so even after probation. It happens.

 

Why did your wife let her job? You had to move?

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5 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Why did your wife let her job? You had to move?

 

Yes we had to move to other city. I was told by my manager and assured by others, I have long years ahead in company. 

 

I wouldn't even ask if this was somehow company decision for whatever reason however this is all one man's doing who is supposed to be busy with more important issues, leaving my boss in charge or applying general company guidelines on these reviews. Seemed wrong to me at every level 

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I'm sorry for your bad experience. It sounds like mobbing. If this is how it's always going to be, then, for your health, you're far better off out than in. 

 

Where were you living before you moved to Bonn? Do you really have to leave Germany for good though, just because of this? Can you both not look for other jobs here and/or claim benefits meantime?

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10 hours ago, Daytraeumer said:

My wife left her job,

 

There is a reason why many Germans keep their old apartments for 6 months after finding a job in another city. (I realise this is too late for you, but I hope the next person in your situation thinks twice after reading this).

 

10 hours ago, Daytraeumer said:

we have to now leave Germany for good and so much more trouble.

 

How long have been in Germany? 

 

10 hours ago, Daytraeumer said:

Is there a legal action you would recommend in this case or probation period no reason required rule still apply ? 

 

 

I'd recommend that start looking for a new job ASAP.

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You can fight this and you will still be out and need a plan, yes it sounds like a very bad situation. Either get a new job here or go back to your previous country and jobs. If you can't speak German well then you have a big problem getting a new job.

In your shoes I would get your wife to call her old job and get it back and move back. 

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4 minutes ago, engelchen said:

There is a reason why many Germans keep their old apartments for 6 months after finding a job in another city. (I realise this is too late for you, but I hope the next person in your situation thinks twice after reading this).

Although this may prove quite expensive or not at all feasible in some situations, especially if the properties are not owner-occupied, who wants to pay double rent?!

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4 minutes ago, lunaCH said:

Although this may prove quite expensive or not at all feasible in some situations, especially if the properties are not owner-occupied, who wants to pay double rent?!

 

Consider a family of 5 where the primary earner has a new job in another city and three school aged children. Do you really think it is a good idea to move the entire family before you know whether or not the job will work out? 

 

Furthermore, it is not usually twice as much rent, but initially just a small apartment/ room in the new city. There are even substantial tax deductions in the first 3 months.

 

Contracts being terminated in the probationary period is more common than you'd think and it seems to happen more often to foreigners (often while some employers don't really think things through).

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11 hours ago, Daytraeumer said:

 

Yes we had to move to other city. I was told by my manager and assured by others, I have long years ahead in company. 

 

1. Yes we had to move to other city. - You, but not your wife

2. I was told by my manager and assured by others, I have long years ahead in company. - day dreamer

 

3. jeba: Is there a Betriebsrat you could consult? If he really is a manager, he will not run to the Betriebsrat.

 

If the chemistry between you and the company (especially the superiors) is not right - > leave

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2 hours ago, engelchen said:

There is a reason why many Germans keep their old apartments for 6 months after finding a job in another city. (I realise this is too late for you, but I hope the next person in your situation thinks twice after reading this).

 

I second this as well to those taking up new jobs. No matter how good things seem, make sure you make minimal changes during probation period. It sound like common sense but working in so many different set ups, countries, I never experienced remotely similar a situation not even vicarious one at that. A fresh lessons learned for me. 

 

2 hours ago, engelchen said:

How long have been in Germany? 

 

 

1 year total 

 

2 hours ago, black1 said:

In your shoes I would get your wife to call her old job and get it back and move back. 

5 hours ago, lunaCH said:

Do you really have to leave Germany for good though, just because of this? Can you both not look for other jobs here and/or claim benefits meantime?


Yes, unfortunately this is the case. We both feel we could use a fresh start. 


Working with US/UK companies, I can clearly see how coming from creative/collaborative company cultures to that of controlled in Germany is diffucult to cope with for me and will never work. I was very suprised to see how desperate and feeble my boss and HR were. Fascinating it was to see how my boss portrayed the whole thing differently when he was in front of his boss. HR despite asking confidentiality had to play a hitman who cannot form opinion and try to solve this for the benefit of both parties. 

 

Nevertheless I wish something could be done against the competency of 1 person - not just for candidates but also for the company. After all so much time effort hiring someone went into smoke.

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48 minutes ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

1. Yes we had to move to other city. - You, but not your wife

2. I was told by my manager and assured by others, I have long years ahead in company. - day dreamer

 

3. jeba: Is there a Betriebsrat you could consult? If he really is a manager, he will not run to the Betriebsrat.

 

If the chemistry between you and the company (especially the superiors) is not right - > leave

 

1. So you are serious on this one? You cannot seriously think of reasons couples cannot stay away - google it. 

2. People has their own business experience, belief system all of which might have been influenced by different national cultures they were part of. Something doch! somewhere, could mean something else. Being honest and trusting reputable company managers never wronged me earlier - that did not mean day dreaming. 

3. Another obvious point, surely I am leaving company but no! the guy is not my superior he is the boss of my boss in that even my boss sits elsewhere with limited contact with my work. So a board member dealing with someone down the corporate ladder to this extent is not chemistry but invitation to obvious issues. 

 

Moreover, here is the point in this question not leaving company:

13 hours ago, Daytraeumer said:

I thought nonetheless asking this question as things happened to me feels seriously wrong and should not be happening to someone else. 

  

If all your answers to life are of this quality, please try to keep them to yourself. 

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34 minutes ago, Daytraeumer said:

1 year total 

 

If you have made 12 months of unemployment insurance contributions in the past 30 months you are eligible for unemployment insurance benefits (ALG I). 

 

Did you have 2 different jobs in this time?

 

34 minutes ago, Daytraeumer said:

Working with US/UK companies, I can clearly see how coming from creative/collaborative company cultures to that of controlled in Germany is diffucult to cope with for me and will never work. I was very suprised to see how desperate and feeble my boss and HR were.

 

I really think that many German employers do not consider cultural differences when hiring foreign managers. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, engelchen said:

If you have made 12 months of unemployment insurance contributions in the past 30 months you are eligible for unemployment insurance benefits (ALG I). 

 

we are not eligible for this, not that we would apply. It should go to people who are in need.

 

37 minutes ago, engelchen said:

I really think that many German employers do not consider cultural differences when hiring foreign managers. 

 

sure they do, and they should, for the benefit of everyone.

We cannot dismiss existence of corporate culture. There is an awful lot of research in this field : "organizational culture"

 

There is nothing wrong with that however saying we are open minded, looking to hire the best and grow in a strictly hierarchical company is a bir paradoxical. Seeing no one can even attempt to have a discussion about the wrongdoing is beyond my understanding. US/UK companies are more open in this regard and you can easily have a conversation anyone in any position and he would not feel threatened by this. 

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Well google did not point out why your wife could not be bothered to keep her job until you are safely fixed in your new position. Please enlighten me.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Wherearewegoingto said:

 

Well google did not point out why your wife could not be bothered to keep her job until you are safely fixed in your new position. Please enlighten me.

 

Himm so you could not think of any reason why a couple prefer to stay together (financial, health, marriage issues, perhaps children etc.) and nothing came out of google searching ups and downs of long distance relations. I understand some people invisible off-line to community, find online voice they may use to such a temerarious extent but not only it is personal also irrelevant to the thread.

 

thanks for the answers, I guess it is candidates must be very careful what they are signing up for. Auf wiedersehen!

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5 hours ago, Daytraeumer said:

Himm so you could not think of any reason why a couple prefer to stay together (financial, health, marriage issues, perhaps children etc.) and nothing came out of google searching ups and downs of long distance relations. I understand some people invisible off-line to community, find online voice they may use to such a temerarious extent but not only it is personal also irrelevant to the thread.

 

Nobody said you should divorce but if you had wanted to play it safe you could have rented a room for starters and stayed there during the week going back to your wife on the weekends. You could have done this for a couple of months or longer until you felt sure that the job will work out or even for as long as six months.  Of course I can understand that you may have felt confident about the job based on what you were told but unfortunately it didn't work out.

 

As others have said, if you have 12 months of work here you can get unemployment. You should apply now even though you are still working. Your wife can apply too but she will likely be blocked for three months due to quitting her job. Once you are receiving benefits you can apply to have them transferred to another EU country you'd like to seek work in. If approved, you go there and register for unemployment there within a week of arriving and get your German benefits there for up to 3 months.

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1 hour ago, LeonG said:

As others have said, if you have 12 months of work here you can get unemployment. You should apply now even though you are still working. Your wife can apply too but she will likely be blocked for three months due to quitting her job. Once you are receiving benefits you can apply to have them transferred to another EU country you'd like to seek work in. If approved, you go there and register for unemployment there within a week of arriving and get your German benefits there for up to 3 months.

 

Thank you for summarizing. What I understand one should work at least a year to apply to unemployement benefits.

We didnt work that long. I am not sure if any of the insurance / tax payment can be requested when leaving Germany for good.

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